Controller Position on Flight Startup?

[ginoc1 4]

Not sure exactly how to phrase this...but I'm a new convert to XP11 from P3D and am learning the "conversion" slowly but surely.  One thing I can't seem to figure out is how to have a new flight start with the axes matching my controller position.  I have a CH yoke, pedals and TQ.  I also have a Saitek trim wheel and switch panel...so if I happen to start a new flight with the engines running I have to wait for the AC to load up i have to immediately press my assigned button for "full brakes" to emulate parking brake so the plane doesn't fly off lol.  I then have to fiddle with my throttles (moving up then down a couple times as quickly as possible to bring the engines to idle because it starts with near full throttle and sometimes when I reduce the throttles the engines actually speed up until I go max then mix again.  It's a little frustrating to say the least and I have to believe there's something I can do or maybe a plugin to poll controller positions and sync with those upon startup?  Any thoughts?  All axes are properly calibrated too...

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Gino

[Jimm 437]

Is there a reason why you need to have the aircraft start with the engines running?  I would think that if you have the whole set of controls, you would want to go through a cold and dark state?  It's a simple curious question, so no offense meant.

 

I know with my own personal controls, consisting of the TM T-Flight Hotas X, which has integrated throttle with stick, I Have made the error of starting with engines running a couple of times (not intentional), but I found that by both setting the throttle to min, on the hardware and manually pulling the throttle back, in the sim, I could reset and sync both pretty quickly, so maybe this could work for you as well.

[airlinejets 709]

 

 

I have a CH yoke, pedals and TQ. I also have a Saitek trim wheel and switch panel...so if I happen to start a new flight with the engines running I have to wait for the AC to load up i have to immediately press my assigned button for "full brakes" to emulate parking brake so the plane doesn't fly off lol.

 

Hi Gino,

 

I believe this is correct behavior, as you would use chocks and tie-downs, then release the parking brake after shutdown. You could file a request with Laminar and ask that parking brakes be set when starting with engines running, which would solve the problem. I'm not certain but this could also be specific behavior of certain aircraft. Developers might have it working like this for the sake of reality.

[Mountain Man 142]

I have a CH Products Eclipse Yoke, and I know that the in-game levers like throttle and mixture do not always correspond to the physical position on my controller.  For instance, if I start up X-Plane with my Yoke throttle at max, in-game, I'll be at idle, but if I move the throttle slightly, it'll suddenly jump to max, which leads me to believe that the physical throttle sends a pulsed signal only when it's actually moved instead of constantly hammering the software with input values.  I doubt there's an easy workaround other than simply anticipating what position all the controls need to be in before you start a flight.

[ginoc1 4]

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.  I rarely start with engines running except for when just checking out a different airplane or a new airport I just installed...or when checking differences with graphics settings etc.  I suppose I just need to anticipate before I start the flight...just wish the sim polled controllers and then matched positions upon startup.  I know SPAD.next does this on it's own but that only works on the Saitek controllers. 

 

And by the way...been an FS9, FSX, P3D user for years and years and have spent countless hours tweaking things and assigning programs to certain cores and messing with refresh rates etc only to never truly be satisfied with the smoothness of the sim (esp using TrackIR).   I even tried XP in the past but once I experienced the demo for XP11 and saw the potential AND felt what I consider the most fluid and smooth flight and feeling of flight ever in a  non-combat sim...well let's just say I fought it for a few weeks convincing myself I could and would fly both,  but as of yesterday I bit the bullet and uninstalled my rather enormous P3D installation.  Sure I may revisit some day but for now I'm all-in with XP...despite missing my beloved Majestic Q400 along with all the $$$ spent on things like AS2016, ASCA, FSUIPC, ORBX, REX, etc etc etc etc.  I'm not looking back and look forward to learning all that XP has to offer.  In the meantime now I have SSD space for DCS 1.5 AND 2.0 side by side as well as IL2 BOS/BOM for when I want to fly combat.  Thanks again for all your help!

 

Gino

[Paraffin 2,197]

I believe this is correct behavior, as you would use chocks and tie-downs, then release the parking brake after shutdown. You could file a request with Laminar and ask that parking brakes be set when starting with engines running, which would solve the problem. I'm not certain but this could also be specific behavior of certain aircraft. Developers might have it working like this for the sake of reality.

 

If I'm not mistaken, X-Plane has always had brakes off with a hot start on the runway. 

 

Maybe they think people who hot start just want to get moving as soon as possible. Or maybe it's to avoid confusing a newbie who can't figure out why they can't move if they don't know that "B" is for brakes. Since it's been this way for so long, I doubt it will change. I've just trained myself to hit the B key as soon as the plane loads on the runway. 

 

Regarding the throttle setting, I haven't needed to cycle my throttle to reset it. I start with my Thrustmaster Warthog throttle quadrant at minimum, and it will always show the same minimum setting for engine revs on a hot start. You shouldn't need to cycle the throttle through the full range to get it to minimum, and the engine shouldn't start at full power (unless the throttle setting is reversed somehow). Does it work that way on all planes, or just one model?

[Jimm 437]

 

 

Maybe they think people who hot start just want to get moving as soon as possible. Or maybe it's to avoid confusing a newbie who can't figure out why they can't move if they don't know that "B" is for brakes. Since it's been this way for so long, I doubt it will change. I've just trained myself to hit the B key as soon as the plane loads on the runway. 

This just made me recant what I'd said before about starting up in X-Plane.  Each and every time I start the default C172SP, the parking break is on, so something strange is occurring.  I've learned to start all my flights cold & dark (with the exception of times where I purposely started with engines running), so i go through the procedure of startup, not really paying attention to the brake status, though when I am ready, I instinctively release the P brake, so again, I'm not sure why some don't have the brake on and mine does?

[Paraffin 2,197]

This just made me recant what I'd said before about starting up in X-Plane.  Each and every time I start the default C172SP, the parking break is on, so something strange is occurring.  I've learned to start all my flights cold & dark (with the exception of times where I purposely started with engines running), so i go through the procedure of startup, not really paying attention to the brake status, though when I am ready, I instinctively release the P brake, so again, I'm not sure why some don't have the brake on and mine does?

 

Hmm.... I just did a quick test with the default C172 in XP11 beta, hot start on the runway, and the brakes are definitely off. Throttle forward, and she moves. She moved immediately on startup in earlier betas when the prop thrust was too high, and some of the stronger prop planes like the Carenado PC-12 and RWDesigns DHC-6 Twin Otter will still do that, requiring an immediate hit of the "B" key with a hot start on the runway (even at engine idle on the throttle).

 

Are you not seeing this behavior when starting with engines running? If so, do you have something set for brakes (either "B" for brakes or "V" for parking brake) on a controller button instead of the keyboard? I'm using just the keyboard for that, with toe brakes on my pedals for brakes while moving. Maybe you have a controller button sending a brakes-on signal on startup?

 

Also, the brakes status may be different with cold starts. I usually don't do those (not practical when renting a/c with timers running in FSEconomy), so I've forgotten how that works.

:smile:

[Jimm 437]

 

 

Also, the brakes status may be different with cold starts

You could be right about this.  As I said previous, I rarely ever do a hot start, but if memory serves, even with hot starts, the aircraft didn't move until I disengaged the brakes (parking brake was on).  Now currently, with my cold and dark starts, I use a modified flight model (I believe it was someone here at AVSIM who created it) that helps with wind vaning, has a fixed landing light switch and other mods to make the aircraft a little easier to handle.  I don't know for sure if anything was done for the brakes though.

 

Now that you've brought this up, I'm definitely going to have to run a test this evening to re-confirm all of this.

[Mountain Man 142]

My "hot starts" always have the brake on by default regardless of aircraft.

[Jimm 437]

My "hot starts" always have the brake on by default regardless of aircraft.

I coincidentally finished a couple of flights this evening, short ones, but both times, while entering the aircraft, the parking brake was engaged, so I can confirm that in my setup, the brakes are active until I either engaged the brake to release the parking brake or manually release the parking brake.

[Paraffin 2,197]

I coincidentally finished a couple of flights this evening, short ones, but both times, while entering the aircraft, the parking brake was engaged, so I can confirm that in my setup, the brakes are active until I either engaged the brake to release the parking brake or manually release the parking brake.

 

What plane model were you flying? I'm baffled on why we're getting different results. I only fly light GA planes, and every model I fly starts with the brakes off if I'm starting with engine running on the runway.

 

It has to be either a plugin a particular plane model is using, or else we're using different controllers that are sending different inputs to the sim. 

[wb5okj 26]

I'm strictly a GA person, all my planes have the brakes off if i start with engines running. it is this way in X-Plane 10 also. I don' remember if X-Plane 9 was this way but now if i start the sim with engines running i must immediately set the brakes. I have the Saitek Cessna yoke and trottles trim wheel and rudder pedals, the only ne i have to wake upwhen i first start the sim, is the trim wheel. The trim wheel has always been that way in every edition of X-Plane or FSX. I never did P3rd.

[Jimm 437]

What plane model were you flying? I'm baffled on why we're getting different results. I only fly light GA planes, and every model I fly starts with the brakes off if I'm starting with engine running on the runway.

 

It has to be either a plugin a particular plane model is using, or else we're using different controllers that are sending different inputs to the sim. 

Just to be sure nothing was polluting my install or if I had anything latent with the previous model, I forced XP11 Beta 10 to update my C172SP.  I started a new flight, picked the Cessna, an airport, set the weather and time and let it all load.  I was sitting on the tarmac, engines off and the parking brake engaged.  Yes, the P Brake was already engaged.  I too am stumped my mine is engaged and many others' are not.

 

Ok, so I had another thought.  Does X-Plane retain the panel and aircraft states from a previous flight?  If so, then there's your answer.  After every flight, I shut everything down, as well as having the P Brake engaged, but then again, that is usually the first thing I do when I park the aircraft, prior to shutting the aircraft off.  If I'm wrong in that assumption, then I don't know what else it could be.  Come to think of it, it's hard for me to recall the last time I every saw the P Brake not engaged when I started a flight.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Jimm

[Mountain Man 142]

I'm strictly a GA person, all my planes have the brakes off if i start with engines running. it is this way in X-Plane 10 also.

 

That's odd, because I've had the exact opposite experience in both v10 and v11.  My aircraft always default to brakes on, and not just general aviation.  Even the big airliners and military jets have brakes on by default.  Same goes for the few Carenado aircraft I have installed.  This happens whether I have my CH yoke plugged in or not.  Even if I'm using mouse/keyboard for a quick test, brakes default to on.