If you have an issue regarding activation at XA AND you promise to refrain from any trolling and bashing read on...

[hjsmuc 393]

It's late on my side of the planet and I am going to call it a day. Thanks for all the reasonable input so far. From what I understand, we seem to have a conflict between the legitimate right of a developer to protect its intellectual property and the right of the legitimate user to enjoy the product bought. Maybe this gives hope to find a way to a solution, in which case I would be happy to have started this initiative. 

[JYW 2,977]

I have a dynamic IP address, so maybe that's the problem

 

Me too.   I understand ISPs with dynamic IP addresses are very common in Europe but much less so in North America.  Perhaps this is why XA are so 'suspicious'. But in fact, 32% of all broadband users in the UK use BT Internet - which uses dynamic IPs.

 

Perhaps that is the reason my request for re-activation of the IXEG was completely ignored.  No responses.   Raised first ticket, waited 6 days, no reply, raised 2nd ticket, no reply.

 

I took a look at the XA forum and to be honest, saw that everyone who was reporting such issues were either subtley or blatently being suspected for pirating the software.  I decided not to even go there, and didn't join the support forum.    I've gotten to 53 years of age without ever even thinking about piracy - I'm not about to start now!

 

Personally, I take a bit of a "life's too short" approach to problems and people like this.  I decided to cut my losses, and not get overly upset by it.

 

There are so many great products available across the 2 platforms I use (FSX:SE and XP10). I simply vote with my wallet.       I do find it quite shocking to have spent $74.95, and only installed the product once previously.

 

If the IXEG was for sale elsewhere, I'd consider "re" buying it.

[Paraffin 2,197]

Personally, I take a bit of a "life's too short" approach to problems and people like this.  I decided to cut my losses, and not get overly upset by it.

 

I can understand that, I'd feel that way too. I've bought several X-Aviation products over the years -- the MU-2, the Falco (no longer supported), the great LES DC-3, and stayed on board through the various updates of SkyMaxx Pro and RWC including the current version. I've never had any trouble moving this stuff to new computers, but then I don't do that often, so I guess I've never hit an activation limit. Or a new version was updated that reset the counter.

 

But if I ever have an activation hassle, I can walk away from all of that. Although... the LES DC-3 would be tough. It's the only really good model we have in X-Plane of that iconic plane (sigh).

 

Anyway, I support the right of developers to use DRM, but not when it tilts too far to the benefit of the developer over legitimate purchasers. I hope everyone here who has had problems gets their issues ironed out, and I'll help support them by being cautious about recommending X-Aviation products until support seems more reliable.

[be77solo 125]

PM sent Hans with my poor experience, best of luck to you.  

[JYW 2,977]

I have a simple question, if this issue is as big as you say it is, why have you not pursued this through other channels? If you paid with a credit card, could you not speak with your card company to pursue the matter? If you paid through Paypal, again could you not speak with them about the matter?

 

The issue here Jim is that, many do not encounter such re-activation issues until quite a long period of time has passed since purchase.   Credit Card and PayPal providers both have a 'cut off' timescale, after which claims cannot be made.  I investigated this with my own CC provider and was told that as 13 months had passed since my purchase, I had no recourse.

 

So the de facto position for me was, I paid $74.95, got one install, and then no further ability to reinstall beyond that one initial download.  (X-Aviation's download links expire after 6 months....or at least they did for this product.  Hence the need to request a reactivation for product download links).

[kneighbour 32]

I guess my history is fairly typical. I clicked on the download link twice by accident when reinstalling. The internet was slow that day and that used up my 3 downloads. I had the software (IXEG, I think) and was fine, but thought I should reset the download just in case. I used the system to ask for a reset, but it never happened.

 

Eventually an upgrade came along and that reset the download count, so I was never without the product I paid for. But the original download counter was never reset despite me following the system.

 

I am in Australia and we use pretty much all dynamic IPs here. It can change at any time, so any system that uses an IP address for checking is going to fail. The problem seems to be that you are deemed to be a pirate unless you can prove otherwise.

 

I only see this from my side of the fence, but the piracy problem in XP seems to be tiny. Unless these files are on the Dark Web they must be very well hidden as I have never seen any around. But that is only me.

 

Anyway, hopefully the right people are listening and take this feedback in the right spirit.

[60North 120]

Our experience with this is exactly the same as jspahn.  

As for the IP thing, as far as I know, the security system tracks machine ID so that is not the case.

 

That being said, the reset time/system at the moment is too slow and unnecessary complicated, therefore XA

is working on a new system to make life easier for everyone (except pirates)

 

We are also considering a tougher approach on those caught pirating and starting "fake news" topics, and we might

also seek closer cooperation with sites like Avsim and .org sharing information to expose these guy's which are costing XP developers and vendors

huge sums every year. 

[tonywob 4,768]

 

 

That being said, the reset time/system at the moment is too slow and unnecessary complicated, therefore XA
is working on a new system to make life easier for everyone (except pirates)

 

This is good news. I want to install my Saab again

 

 

We are also considering a tougher approach on those caught pirating and starting "fake news" topics, and we might
also seek closer cooperation with sites like Avsim and .org sharing information to expose these guy's which are costing XP developers and vendors
huge sums every year. 

 

I saw enough of this on some of the X-Plane Facebook groups and have even seen respected members and some developers abusing the system, so I can understand XA's stance on this. It's one of the reasons I avoid those groups now. Anyway, I hope they find a way to protect developers but not punish legitimate users who just want to use those products.

[Colonel X 1,428]

 

 

I decided to cut my losses, and not get overly upset by it.

 

You're a wise man.

[tkyler 88]

Hello all.  Thank you for your inputs.

 

There is quite a lot going on in the background with regards to what is factual and what is not regarding XA activites and license resets.  I occasionally work from X-Aviation offices and I have personally seen what goes on in the background with regards to customer support.  X-Aviation has one of the more sophisticated DRM systems available, which plainly indicates when 'sharing' is taking place.  Many other distributors do not and so of course there's no issue at those spots.  When folks get called out on it by XA (average of 8-10 times a day), they tend to get a bit hostile and embarassed and frequently lash out in forums...and with no posting priveleges at x-plane.org, we can't respond at that venue and the complaints can appear to pile up.  Also, I've seen at least 3 well-known, old-timer X-Plane communty users get caught and admit to it...but of course XA privacy policy doesn't allow us to lay those cards on the table.  

 

I'm completely sure that some honest folks get caught up, and its due to varied issues, but I stand by my claim and by X-Aviation that it is a significant minority of those who publicly claim lack of service from XA on the forums.  I fully understand how those honest folks absolutely loathe getting caught up and get very angry.....I've been that guy.  I know when I lose airline luggage I want the airline to stop all flights and get every employee to bow down to me and find my luggage.   But it is challenging with 9 out of 10 people incensed that they're 'caught up'....and 9 of them are confirmed pirates.   It means the one honest one will probably have to fight that much harder to get heard. and that is unfortunate and undesired and we do deal with that as best we can.  The old adage, "a few people ruin it for everybody" certainly has some applicability.   The ability to 'hide' behind PMs and forum posts makes folks a bit more bolder also.   

 

We designed the license system based on sound data about typical customer hardware usage and noting that "the squeeky wheel gets the grease", most don't see the 95% of satisfied customers XA has because they're too busy flight simming to complain.   I myself have concerns over DRM...I'm an old timer and mostly like my software nice and privately on my own hard drive, but times are changing and I've had to adopt it for most of the professional software tools I use.  I'm finding it's not the end of the world.

 

IXEG understands that you can't please everybody, and the team are old enough geezers to just accept it as "the way it is" and why we are mostly quiet on the subject,  but with the increase of the X-Plane Market share and the increase in sales of the 737, it is simply a numbers game that as the market goes up,  so too will the vocalizations by customers.   As such, we expect from time to time to have to clarify our position for current and future customers.

 

We are looking into license management considerations while protecting our business at the same time.  We understand a few honest folks can get caught up....but we also understand the absolute majority of public complaints are by known pirates...not suspected, known... with hard data.  We cannot make this data public as it violates privacy, which is of utmost priority.  We understand this is natural grounds for skepticism....but oh well.   We do take the valid complaints seriously, do not dismiss them and will strive to improve.  The tech is challenging to architect and also to implement and so does not happen overnight, but our desire to make sure all our honest customers are satisfied is very much intact.  We apologize to those that do get caught up, we've been there too.

 

Tom Kyler

IXEG

 

 

 

 

 

[hjsmuc 393]

Tom, I appreciate your in depth explanations.

 

The point where I am lost is the following: You are saying that some innocent users are caught in the system and that the architecture will be improved to avoid this. But what does that mean for the ones being caught now in an unjustified way? While you say that their complaints are not dismissed, what would you call it if there is no feedback at all? Doesn't that imply that you have checked the complaint and either suspected or confirmed that it was not valid? You are also saying that you cannot publish information about pirates, right so. But you can confront every customer with its own wrongdoing. So to summarize: I bought a product (still listed in my account), I ask for reactivation, I don't hear anything back.

 

That leaves me with two explanations: Either my request is in the pipeline somewhere or it was considered to be illegitimate. The first seems unlikely after 13 days and given the fact that the first ticket response only took a few hours. Which leaves me with the second option. In this case I'd like to hear the arguments justifying this. I have no problem if such arguments be brought forward in public. In any case, there is always the chance of a misinterpretation which cannot be addressed without communication.

 

What am I missing?

 

Notwithstanding the one single activation which triggered the whole discussion, I consider the topic to be of importance (also for the wiser among us  :wink: ) because it affects future sales. Take the IXEG 737, I so much would like to buy it right away but maybe there is some understanding that I can't buy it before I have clarity about the old case. 

[Muskoka 104]

Tom, I think we get all that. I've also had to "jump through hoops" to get a re-activation at XA, and had a post here about it myself. I was getting no where through the proper channels and was lost as to why. It was very frustrating to say the least. I understand the piracy out there must be very frustrating, but it comes down to a certain persons attitude.

 

When you treat "everyone" as guilty until proven innocent, from a public relations stand point, your going to loose, every time. People will get fed up, and speak with their wallets, or in the case of this thread, through other channels. I myself have already decided not to spend any more money at X-Aviation until the current system is revamped to something more fair, and equatable for both parties.

 

Hopefully the system is being worked on, and will make re-activation a less painful experience.

[Cameron XA 272]

That's the problem. It is not getting resolved.

 

You decided to use Avsim as an engine for provocation. In fact, in your last support ticket you stated: "We had our little row about this on your forum and as you may have noticed there were quite some people feeling sympathetic with me on Avsim as well."

 

We didn't have any "row", nor argument. You were simply attempting to aggravate a situation, push your ticket ahead others, and use the forums as an engine to drive that. I will have none of that (in addition to any piracy).

 

 

In today's world, the IP is changing constantly. How can you have a fixed IP as an ordinary internet user?

 

As has been said and even corrected by John, we actually do not make the IP part of any consideration in the catching of people sharing. I would go so far as to say we do not even "suspect" piracy. We KNOW. There is absolutely 100% indisputable evidence of it once we find it.

 

 

 

 

I still seem to miss something. 

 

The fact that having an agenda and using forums to stir up controversy is NOT going to work in your favor. Period.

 

 

 

I'm in the same boat, although I have had great experience purchasing at XA in the past, the last time I have asked for reactivation through the ticket system, I never got a response back, its been more than 72hrs,  actually, its been more than 2 months now.

 

Carlos, please accept my sincere apologies. I have just found two e-mails from you left in a spam box and have just solved your requests. In the future, please contact me directly here should you find this type of issue again.

 

 

 

 

Personally, I take a bit of a "life's too short" approach to problems and people like this.  I decided to cut my losses, and not get overly upset by it.

 

Bill, I'd like to look into your case, but in our system typing in "Bill" yields a ton of 'solved' tickets. There is not enough info to go by in your profile here at Avsim to determine your account information at X-Aviation. If you'd like to PM me directly I'd be happy to assist.

 

--------------

 

The truth of the situation is really quite simple (even as hard as it is for some of you to believe). Most every single case we see of public outcry is the result of an individual who was just caught stealing (piracy). We go over this with the individual, often times they will admit to it, and the immediate response after the fact is to lash out in the forums claiming no help, which consequently drums up support from others who have been caught in the past.

 

There was a post on the org in the last week where not ONE single person in that topic had a truthful reply. It's absolutely shocking the amount of attempted sharing in this community, especially from some fairly 'high profile' individuals in this community. While I can't legally sit here and divulge names, it's definitely a sad reality and a problem. And again, majority of these people fess up to it. Our system is not guesswork. We truly know down the the 'T' who is sharing, and exactly with who.

[hjsmuc 393]

Just for completeness, my last ticket stated also:

 

I sincerely hope that we can sort this out now. I patiently waited your “three days”, notwithstanding that I had asked for a reactivation weeks ago when I saw the notice on my account.

 

In the absence of any explanation of why you can’t simply activate my license I kindly ask you again to do the necessary now without any further delay.

 

If there is any reason why you can’t or don’t want to comply with my request then please let me know.

 

Looking forward to a personal reply and a solution, 

 

Quoting you, Cameron: "The fact that having an agenda and using forums to stir up controversy is NOT going to work in your favor. Period."

 

That's the written proof that a legitimate request is refused for personal reasons. All needed to hear. Thank you.

 

From my perspective, the topic can be locked.

 

Thanks to the admins for allowing the exchange.

[Cameron XA 272]

 

 

That's the written proof that a legitimate request is refused for personal reasons. All needed to hear. Thank you.

 

Thank God 99.9% of our customers don't take the tactic you did and try to twist things around. It's hardly proof of anything other than shedding light on your agenda. The idea that sharing the rest of your ticket was for 'completeness' means nothing. It's how you started it and introduced the topic that matters.

 

So long as you want to 'fight' and have a sling fest, you'll get no respect from me.