CPU Choices for P3D now and the future - Cores

[TechguyMaxC 516]

15 hours ago, Lenny777 said:

Not quite the King or rather the king should move over. Recent testing on Ryzen 7 1700X SINGLE THREAD test against  Core i7 7700K   beats the latter. Of course it demolishes multi-threaded   Core i7 6950X  Intel’s flagship processor all $1700 of her.

  http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1700x-6950x-7700k-cpu-benchmarks/

I've seen you say this a couple times now.  You should be careful or you're going to end up disappointing yourself, and misleading others.  The result(s) you're pointing to consist of a single synthetic benchmark, i.e. not a real world application.  Performance rarely scales perfectly from synthetic to real-world.  In addition to this, a single data point means very little in the big picture.  Sure, Ryzen could be faster in this one test, and slower in 100 othres.  Wait for results on Thursday.  We'll know how it does for sure at that time.  

[Lenny777 299]

17 hours ago, JamesHongKong said:

The next couple of days should certainly give us some more idea as to performance. I am leaning towards the 1800x Ryzen more and more - a couple of exchanges I have had with people in the community has suggested multi core optimisation is perhaps on the cards for both sims and games in the future - whilst this would be a guess and a risk to take I don't think it is that big a one. Performance and smoothness with a higher core CPU (with a higher LM3 cache) is certainly possible and the performance difference between say a 7700k and a 6 or 8 core CPU isn't going to be that big. Or I should say that I would probably not notice it. Particularly if running a lot of other external add ons. If we can get Ryzens that hid 4.4-4.6GHz say then that'll swing it for me.

If I do go that way I'll be sure to post up my experiences, that's for sure! Will be waiting for the reviews. The embargo is up today isn't it for reviewers?

I thought it was March 2 the actual release date.

[Lenny777 299]

7 hours ago, TechguyMaxC said:

I've seen you say this a couple times now.  You should be careful or you're going to end up disappointing yourself, and misleading others.  The result(s) you're pointing to consist of a single synthetic benchmark, i.e. not a real world application.  Performance rarely scales perfectly from synthetic to real-world.  In addition to this, a single data point means very little in the big picture.  Sure, Ryzen could be faster in this one test, and slower in 100 othres.  Wait for results on Thursday.  We'll know how it does for sure at that time.  

Of course. But the original poster made it appear that the story was already a fait accomplis on Intel's chip. In fact, if anything, it's Intel's propaganda which should be told to "be careful". The point is the testing has just started and is being leaked out. No one should be writing this Ryzen off in single threaded tests just yet.

[JamesIceland 14]

2 hours ago, Lenny777 said:

I thought it was March 2 the actual release date.

You could be right actually - I thought there was an embargo of the 28th but maybe not.

On the P3D forums one of the software developers confirms that P3D does make use of more cores if you have them. I was also advised that a sweet spot would be 8 cores. I know there are differing opinions on this but I think for my other computer usage (photo/video editing) more cores will likely be beneficial. I think Max may have said this in mentioning he has a sim build and another for other uses? 

Just now waiting for NVidia's press conference to start to see what GPU I may be pairing with whichever CPU I go for!

[TechguyMaxC 516]

11 hours ago, JamesHongKong said:

You could be right actually - I thought there was an embargo of the 28th but maybe not.

On the P3D forums one of the software developers confirms that P3D does make use of more cores if you have them. I was also advised that a sweet spot would be 8 cores. I know there are differing opinions on this but I think for my other computer usage (photo/video editing) more cores will likely be beneficial. I think Max may have said this in mentioning he has a sim build and another for other uses? 

Just now waiting for NVidia's press conference to start to see what GPU I may be pairing with whichever CPU I go for!

"Uses" is not the same as "produces higher FPS".  P3D and X-plane can both use a lot of cores, but in most situations it won't help your frame rate.  Only when you have extreme amounts of AI can the additional cores make a difference compared to say a quad core chip.  

[JamesIceland 14]

13 hours ago, TechguyMaxC said:

"Uses" is not the same as "produces higher FPS".  P3D and X-plane can both use a lot of cores, but in most situations it won't help your frame rate.  Only when you have extreme amounts of AI can the additional cores make a difference compared to say a quad core chip.  

I understand. I think the differences I would likely see between the different CPU's may be negligible though. I am also thinking about future proofing in case future versions of P3D optimise things further. If it does go 64 bit that may open up in terms of AI Aircraft too so could be some benefits. I may be able to make use of more cores in other work I do too. We will see today/tomorrow with the first reviews likely to come in. 

[JamesIceland 14]

On 3/1/2017 at 10:40 PM, TechguyMaxC said:

P3D and X-plane can both use a lot of cores, but in most situations it won't help your frame rate.

Well Max, you have been pretty much spot on throughout. Having digested a lot of the information and reviews coming through it looks like the pendulum swings back in favour of an Intel 7700k build for P3D. The results coming in for Ryzen are somewhat underwhelming in real world gaming scenarios but look great for multi-threaded workstation use. There is probably quite a lot of early adopter issues being seen by the reviewers - it sounds like the full RAM potential is not unlocked, things like that. I watched a livestream today from Jayztwocents and he has received emails from AMD to disable x, y and z on the CPU's (and on Intels even) to get most performance i.e. it's not out of the box ready. Therefore for now, as you've been saying, in any meaningful gaming metric, the 7700k is streets ahead at stock clock speeds, let alone when pushed.

My only concern going with a 7700k build is future proofing and second guessing whether Intel will release something more interesting quickly or whether P3D v4 is suddenly going to be suddenly multi-core friendly. The two thoughts I would have on that are that:

1) If LM do go 64 bit does that mean they will automatically be making it more multi-friendly i.e. does one thing go hand in hand with the other or will the 64 bit optimisation be the big and only change

2) Even if they do go multi-core tastic, would I really notice a big hit with a 7700k for the next couple of years? i.e. am I suddenly going to be losing loads of frames and smoothness?

One thing that I have decided (and please feel free to chime in with thoughts here) is to use a spare networked PC to run a number of the apps I use when flying. Therefore my main sim build will be pretty much P3D only and I'm hoping to offload things like AivlaSoft EFB, ASN, ChasePlane and others to it. Theoretically this will free up the 4 core 7700k to focus on P3D pretty exclusively. Will this be a good move?

Getting ready to move forward now - I think the next build in a couple of years will be really exciting as I think the competition will be there from AMD once things get settled down - the next gen Intels and AMDs may be really good for us all.

[swiesma 625]

7700K + 1080 ti would be my favourite wehn I had to build a new system for P3D at the moment...

[JamesIceland 14]

Just now, swiesma said:

7700K + 1080 ti would be my favourite wehn I had to build a new system for P3D at the moment...

That is exactly what I'm going for - just ordered everything (apart from the 1080Ti). Even if P3D does change, it will still work really well on this system I'm sure - it's not like 4 core performance is suddenly going to be terrible, it just may make use of a few more cores. But it's guesswork anyway so I'm happy with my final choice. Just need to build it once the parts arrive!

[TechguyMaxC 516]

7700k is a smart choice.  It's exactly the one I made for my Flight Sim box a couple weeks ago, even knowing the Ryzen launch was imminent. ;)

[JamesIceland 14]

Thanks Max, I think you are right. I certainly don't think moving from a 3930k at 4.2GHz to a Ryzen 1800x that struggles to reach 4.0 GHz (it seems) would have made any sense. Perhaps the next generation I can make that move but I think my choice will see me through the next couple of years at least, don't you? Even if they improve core performance, we won't be left behind. Not when I intend to smash it with a 1080Ti too! 

Looking forward to getting things set up now - thank you Max for your help (as well as others).

[TechguyMaxC 516]

Yessir.  I really wish I could've been sold on an upgrade to Ryzen yesterday but it wasn't a clear-cut choice.  The 7700k on the other hand, is the clear winner in its category.  Ryzen is soft of a Jack of all trades, master of (few), IMHO.  

[BaldyB 20]

3 hours ago, TechguyMaxC said:

Yessir.  I really wish I could've been sold on an upgrade to Ryzen yesterday but it wasn't a clear-cut choice.  The 7700k on the other hand, is the clear winner in its category.  Ryzen is soft of a Jack of all trades, master of (few), IMHO.  

Sir, are you really a Tech Guy? I mean you are looking at a brand new architecture in it's first stepping, it is very close, regarding single thread performance. If you base it's performance on any device when it's brand new and it has more room than not for all sorts of improvements and on a narrow snapshot of time, you may find yourself in error.

If Flight Sims are your only interest and you use your machine exclusively for them then go with the 7700k. But don't be surprised if the R7 1700X beats the 7700K later on. Do you remember the multi threading problems Intel had with it's early implementation? AMD is going thru the same thing with SMT, when it's fixed what will it mean in, particular with P3D?

Too many early issues. I will wait a bit because I do like to shoot fast, but only if I can shoot straight!

Best

BaldyB

  

 

[Noel 4,486]

On 2/23/2017 at 0:49 AM, JamesHongKong said:

 

 

 

Exactly - therein lies the dilemma - what are Lockheed Martin going to do with the code for v4 apart from it being 64 bit as a best guess? Reading some threads on their forum they do occasionally mention that P3D does take advantage of multi core processors but it's never easy to find out by just how much it does.

Can they take advantage of more cores and is there incentive for them to do so? It depends what most users have in their systems I guess. The core target audience for P3D remains in the commercial space so I'd have no idea if they would be using supercomputer multi-core processors that LM may want to optimise the code for.

I am also aware that my 3930k stands up pretty well - the benefit of going to a 7700k is clear from a single-threaded perspective as I'd be getting perhaps up to 5GHz from it as things stand today.

I'm in the same boat James.  I have a 5 y/o 3930K, GTX Titan, and I won't be replacing it unless there is some real upside or something dies in the CPU or mobo.  I assembled this build with the idea of covering the bases for multicore optimization going forward, and I've been very pleased and still am.   Now I know the Maj Dash 8 is a piece of cake to operate, but to be able to fly that out and into anywhere in FTX Regional scenery w/ truly perfect smoothness at a 30mHz vsync with scenery setttings seems remarkable after 5y into it.  The PMDG stuff is more taxing, but I'm able to keep LOD maxed and dial back some scenery sliders and it's almost as perfectly smooth, just buttery smooth w/ nary a hitch.

So for me I'm holding pat until we know for sure where P3D is headed, and even then I'll hold pat until this box dies, which it may be.  Just recently I had to over-volt from 1.32 to 1.325 vCore to get thru a flight w/o BSOD.  I've been running this thing now for 5y at 4.442 Ghz at 1.32v and never got one BSOD or hard freeze.   About 2 weeks ago the presumed degradation began to manifest.   So....hopefully she will stay alive until V4 arrives!  

Even if V4 is not 64bit I will likely stick w/ 6+ cores.   To be able to clock from 4.4 to let's say 4.8 just doesn't add much compared to the potential performance of what more cores do and may eventually bring.   I tend to agree that more cores are useful in the smoothness domain.  With affinity mask of 340 and the monitor refresh rate the level of smoothness has reached a level of very close to real perfection defined as absence of stutters, hesitations, hitches, with freedom from poor texture update rate--truly, as it should be.

[JamesIceland 14]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

So for me I'm holding pat until we know for sure where P3D is headed, and even then I'll hold pat until this box dies, which it may be.  Just recently I had to over-volt from 1.32 to 1.325 vCore to get thru a flight w/o BSOD.  I've been running this thing now for 5y at 4.442 Ghz at 1.32v and never got one BSOD or hard freeze.   About 2 weeks ago the presumed degradation began to manifest.   So....hopefully she will stay alive until V4 arrives!

 

We are in the same boat indeed - one of the reasons I have decided to upgrade. Our 3930k's are still beasts but mine is struggling with the overclock now and temperatures have been creeping up of late. I think the CPU architecture advancements in the 4 core 7700k will provide strong performance in P3D (and 64 bit even with multi-core enhancements) for a good 2-3 years yet. That's what I'm banking on. Particularly as I plan to couple it with a 1080Ti and offload some programs onto a networked computer to let the 4 cores do their work on P3D.

The performance of P3D with a 3930k and a 780Ti has been fine. I do want to take advantage of the latest technologies before I make a move internationally to a country where it'll cost me about 60% more to upgrade! In an ideal world I'd have just updated my GPU and waited a couple of years for AMD and Intel to hopefully push each other into new developments. That said I think I will be more than happy with upgrading now as well. I'm not after 60FPS either. A solid 30FPS that can be maintained with the usual add-ons will suffice. My biggest issues have always been VAS so if 64 bit comes then I will be delighted to not be watching that forever more!