HDG mode killed by TO/GA

[threexgreen 3,133]

When I fly a SID which requires ATC vectors and I select HDG mode prior to takeoff for runway heading as soon as I engage TO/GA it kills HDG and I have to awkwardly move the camera to the left while accelerating to re-engage HDG which is a bit annoying. Doesn't happen in the real airplane as far as I can tell from a video I watched recently. Any idea why this is?

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Ryan,

This does happen, in some airplanes. You're seeing the result of a difference in company options, that you're actually in the power to change (had you read the intro manual to know about them ;) ). The option you're looking for allows you to swap between WINGS LEVEL and HDG SEL (or something to that effect) - have a look at the Intro Manual in the section discussing options.

FWIW: This is also why I get on people's cases for using YouTube videos as 'evidence.' Aviation isn't as black and white as many seem to expect.

[threexgreen 3,133]

Well I didn't think of it being a company preference. I thought I was pressing a wrong button after assigning TO/GA to one of my yoke buttons.

17 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

FWIW: This is also why I get on people's cases for using YouTube videos as 'evidence.' Aviation isn't as black and white as many seem to expect.

I don't expect aviation to be black and white. I didn't say I had tangible evidence of any sort, just that I noticed this being different from what happens in my sim.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

1 hour ago, Canuck said:

I don't expect aviation to be black and white. I didn't say I had tangible evidence of any sort, just that I noticed this being different from what happens in my sim.

Didn't say you did. Note my use of the hypothetical subject of "people" and not the specific subject of "you." I was just noting it as an example of why I don't like YouTube as evidence.

[threexgreen 3,133]

3 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Didn't say you did. Note my use of the hypothetical subject of "people" and not the specific subject of "you." I was just noting it as an example of why I don't like YouTube as evidence.

Fair enough. Anyway, one more thing learned.

[BE19Pilot 0]

SMH...

Scott A. Fitzpatrick

ATP

[ChopperSteve 6]

Have to backup Kyle here, on my real world heli AW139 that i fly it uses the honeywell primus epic avionics suite, selecting TOGA (yes we have that in the larger helicopters :) )  in the Initial software release selected wings level and 1000 fpm ROC as a default...in the latest version of the software when selecting TOGA it couples to NAV and takes you to the missed approach point, you then have the option of selecting other modes once your up and out of the hills :)

[ALF1 15]

In jetliners, who uses wings level ? Vectors after takeoff is usually the norm or LNAV following at 400 ft agl. Setting the heading correctly in the MCP to a "fly runway headind" clearance is much better than wings level.

[threexgreen 3,133]

On 3/4/2017 at 6:02 AM, BE19Pilot said:

SMH...

Scott A. Fitzpatrick

ATP

?

 

On 3/4/2017 at 1:06 PM, Twistgrip said:

Have to backup Kyle here, on my real world heli AW139 that i fly it uses the honeywell primus epic avionics suite, selecting TOGA (yes we have that in the larger helicopters :) )  in the Initial software release selected wings level and 1000 fpm ROC as a default...in the latest version of the software when selecting TOGA it couples to NAV and takes you to the missed approach point, you then have the option of selecting other modes once your up and out of the hills :)

Just realized I know nothing about helicopters... :)

 

21 hours ago, ALF1 said:

In jetliners, who uses wings level ? Vectors after takeoff is usually the norm or LNAV following at 400 ft agl. Setting the heading correctly in the MCP to a "fly runway headind" clearance is much better than wings level.

Thought so too but apparently most airlines use wings level. WestJet appears to use heading though.

[downscc 1,327]

Perfectly good reason for wings level after takeoff is to ensure the pilot is in the loop before the aircraft takes off on a heading, by requiring a button push to engage roll mode commanded turns.  Also, ATC usually gives you the heading during the takeoff clearance unless you are cleared on a RNAV DP and sometimes even then they can give you a different heading. This option works better with such variations.

[threexgreen 3,133]

19 hours ago, downscc said:

Perfectly good reason for wings level after takeoff is to ensure the pilot is in the loop before the aircraft takes off on a heading, by requiring a button push to engage roll mode commanded turns.  Also, ATC usually gives you the heading during the takeoff clearance unless you are cleared on a RNAV DP and sometimes even then they can give you a different heading. This option works better with such variations.

Isn't it also safer to concentrate on getting the aircraft up until accel height first and then start to look for a first turn?

[ALF1 15]

Airlines must have a good reason as Dan says to ask for the wings level option. In General aviation all we had as roll in flight directors was HDG and NAV as an option and I got used to that HDG. You are not engaging the autopilot anytime immediately after takeoff and you certainly don't want a flight director commanding a roll in case you forgot to set the heading bug correctly with the runway heading and takeoff roll. Maintaining wings level after takeoff with or without Flight Director was never a problem even in low RVR takeoffs and fog.

[MarkJHarris 128]

In my outfit we have a mix of 1998-2003 -800NGs all on U10.8a and now a batch of brand new U12.0 airframes. My last company had a mix of 2007-2013 aged airframes, plus a batch of brand new ones with U11.0.

Rarely did I fly one that was the same as the day before! Only on the new ones now do I get some consistency....

 

Anyway. It is a customer option. A lot of airlines use LNAV for most departures, and on those that drop HDG with U10.8a they should retain LNAV if conditions are met re first leg offset, etc.

Our S.O.P. is based on older airplanes as we have about 20 -300s and -300QCs still. 400ft brings a call from PM and PF asks for the relevant lateral mode then. Covers all bases.

There are some glaring errors in NGX BTW.

U14 is scheduled to allow you to put the airways in and the FMC will put the intersections in...It most certainly does not do this now! Also flicking the EFIS controllers to both on one side and back to normal will transfer settings for minimums and FPI. Useful if you have to wind it up a long way and the other guys has already done it. NGX doesn't model this.

Just stuff like that really.

Generally it's very realistic, I certainly still venture on to do a few things before I go to the SIM. In next Month as it happens.

Let me guess... V1 cut and OEI ILS to a go-around? Ho hum...

 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

46 minutes ago, MarkJHarris said:

There are some glaring errors in NGX BTW.

Willing to enumerate them so that we know what to take a look at, or are we just throwing out random assertions for the sake of throwing out random assertions...?

[MarkJHarris 128]

No Kyle, I just fly the real aircraft on a more or less daily basis. I guess, what's a glaring error to me is possibly a small thing to someone else and it doesn't stop the NGX being the best add-on ever for home simulation of a complex airliner like the 737NG. I even do a bit of singlew engine work at home before my SIM visits..

O.K. for the record. The 737 NG has a myriad of options, and you are able to select lots with this sim. However, there are, to my knowledge, 4 different VHF Com units, 5 different VHF NAV units, 3 ADF selectors, HF radio panels or indeed multi controllers, etc. Would be nice to have a few of the options to choose from. The post 2006 Cockpit entry camera system that uses the Lower DU would be nice too but bottom of the list really.

The FMC does stuff the real one does not. You simply cannot select airways and have the intersection appear magically. U14 WILL do this I'm informed but that doesn't come till next year and while we are at it, U12 is the current software load and has a few nice improvements. 

Can we have extending sun visors please? These are now standard fit on deliveries. I wouldn't put it passed Ryanair to pay extra to remove them but they are very nice additions indeed. 

Having to select minimums individually for both sides is a pain. On the overhead panel is a switch to select either EFIS panel to control both sides, Doing this momentarily will transfer the minimums, altimeter setting, FPV on/off setting and everything else selected by the EFIS panel that is not latched by button movement, i.e. RADIO/BARO and in/mm knobs. Useful when the other guy has already put the high acceleration altitude in and you don't want to waste time winding it up..

 

I guess you have attained a level of realism that will do for armchair pilots and enthusiasts and if it was my wishlist verses scimitar winglets and CFM56-7BE external remodel then the later would take my vote too.

Best wishes.