NO AUTLOLAND

[maca11 2]

Hello,

since some time I am usually getting a message on my main panel NO AUTOLAND.

Recently landing on EGLL with NO AUTLAND, however, my landing was automatic and OK.

Is that something wrong I do ?

many thanks !

[Budbud 227]

Hi,

After typing No autoland in the search box of the forum () I found this:

 

[Qavion2 39]

If Jan had his flaps in the wrong position, shouldn't he get a TOO LOW FLAPS aural?

 

[Budbud 227]

5 hours ago, Qavion2 said:

If Jan had his flaps in the wrong position, shouldn't he get a TOO LOW FLAPS aural?

 

Hi,

Not necessarily. The autoland check is done at 1500ft RA if I'm right and the GPWS flaps callout is way below that.

[Qavion2 39]

Quote

Not necessarily. The autoland check is done at 1500ft RA if I'm right and the GPWS flaps callout is way below that.

 

Does the real aircraft check flap settings for the purposes of Autoland?

I know the Flight Control Computers look at inboard Trailing Edge flap position for some purpose, but I can't find anything written down saying that flaps-not-in-landing range will generate a NO AUTOLAND Caution/Advisory/Status....

Experts? Pilots?

Thanks

Cheers

JHW

[Boomer 1,619]

Where can I find detailed info on how autoland works?

[pcubine 143]

1 hour ago, Boomer said:

Where can I find detailed info on how autoland works?

Tutorial 1 starting on starting on page 79 with the approach and then the landing. And all through out the FCOM. Right click on the face of the FCOM. Left click on Find. A box will appear in the upper right. Type Land 3 in the box and left click Next. It will take you to the first mention of LAND 3 in the FCOM. Just keep on clicking and you will eventually come to the last mention of LAND 3.

[Boomer 1,619]

Hmm, just did all that.  Oddly neither document talks about actually how to USE the autoland.

[pcubine 143]

12 minutes ago, Boomer said:

Hmm, just did all that.  Oddly neither document talks about actually how to USE the autoland.

I see in your signature you have a T7. The LAND3 in a 744 is almost identical to the T7. Or you could try to find some video or written instructions on the Internet.

[Budbud 227]

1 hour ago, Boomer said:

 

Hmm, just did all that.  Oddly neither document talks about actually how to USE the autoland.

 

Hi,

There are some hints in the flight patterns charts (QRH page Man 2.2) and in the FCOM landing procedures page NP.21.46).
Both say "Verify the autoland status at 500 feet radio altitude." which means that if you are established on an ILS approach and properly configured for landing (and provided you don't have any failure, cf. FCOM 4.10.15), then the autoland mode will automatically arm.

On the 747 and 777 you don't have nothing additional to configure for an autoland. ILS cat III configuration is the same as the ILS cat I (except for the minimum setting) contrary to the NG where the configuration differs slightly (both CMD A and CMD B manually selected, both nav and course set to the same ILS...).

The FMC of the 747 and 777 will handle on its own the AP and nav requirements for the ILS cat III and Autoland provided you are established on the loc and glide and configured for landing.

[downscc 1,327]

Aside from the buttonology of setting up for autoland, it may be of greater importance to read about Category III approaches and the incredible complexity involved with not only pilot training and aircraft equipment but also airfield management.  A CATIII approach is not something you decide you are going to try in a real cockpit without ATC clearance.

[Qavion2 39]

On 05/03/2017 at 9:43 PM, Qavion2 said:

Does the real aircraft check flap settings for the purposes of Autoland?

A test was carried out in a Level D simulator in the UK recently and the 747-400 does not generate a NO AUTOLAND message during approach if landing flaps are not selected (see Aerowinx Forum).

The test was carried out using Flaps 20 and the aircraft descended to just below 1000' without any problems.

Cheers

JHW

[Captain_Al 66]

43 minutes ago, Qavion2 said:

A test was carried out in a Level D simulator in the UK recently and the 747-400 does not generate a NO AUTOLAND message during approach if landing flaps are not selected (see Aerowinx Forum).

The test was carried out using Flaps 20 and the aircraft descended to just below 1000' without any problems.

Cheers

JHW

This is why there is a limitation that states Autoland is authorized only for Flaps 25 and Flaps 30. On the 787, it is authorized for Flaps 20, 25, and 30. The big issue is the authorization is based on significant testing by Boeing and lessor flap settings were not tested for approval.

[Qavion2 39]

6 minutes ago, Captain_Al said:

This is why there is a limitation that states Autoland is authorized only for Flaps 25 and Flaps 30.

Sorry, I don't follow you, Captain Al.  I understand the necessity for Flaps 25/30 to limit speed, but the NO AUTOLAND message does NOT appear if you have a non-landing flap setting.

Or... by "limitation", do you mean one written in a book to prevent you doing what the aircraft can do.

[Captain_Al 66]

Yes, thus the limitation, so if you Autoland with Flaps 20 on the 400, you just violated a limitation, the jet will do it, but you are prevented from doing it by aircraft limitation, which pilots have to adhere to...