MCE + Pf3>>>contact tower ?

[DrumsArt 270]

Hi Gerald,

Please, what are the "magical words" to contact tower when established on loc and glide so that Mce can send the correct code to PF3 ?

All the sentences that I try result by a no answer from the tower...The problem was described in this old topic but it remained unanswered.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/485230-okay-landing-commands-question/#comment-3389524

Thank you and Regards,

Richard

 

[RALF9636 1,882]

More generally what I'd like to have is a list with just one 100% reliable exact phrase for each PF3-hotkey for each ATC station possible.

 

I know that MCE allows all kinds of variations of phrases - which is great. But in reality some are recognized better than others. I am also struggling with some situations where I have to try all kinds of variations until I find one that is recognized. Announcing ready for taxi is one of the worst cases for me.

 

So I'd like to have just one "backup" phrase for each situation that will reliably work any time if all other phrases fail.

 

Such a list with only one phrase for each hotkey at any ATC station would be highly appreciated!

[DrumsArt 270]

3 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

More generally what I'd like to have is a list with just one 100% reliable exact phrase for each PF3-hotkey for each ATC station possible.

 

I know that MCE allows all kinds of variations of phrases - which is great. But in reality some are recognized better than others. I am also struggling with some situations where I have to try all kinds of variations until I find one that is recognized. Announcing ready for taxi is one of the worst cases for me.

 

So I'd like to have just one "backup" phrase for each situation that will reliably work any time if all other phrases fail.

 

Such a list with only one phrase for each hotkey at any ATC station would be highly appreciated!

Hi Ralf,

You're right, for me it's just painful and frustrating...

It reminds me of the first adventure games on computer only in text in the 80's.
"Open the door" = "Try again"
"Open the door with the key" = "Try again"
2 hours later...
"Brake this f .... door" = "I do not understand, try again"
And so, and so, and so ......

Sorry for the off topic...

Anyway the "ready to taxi" works for me : just try "Ground>Blabla123>Ready to taxi" don't add runway because sometimes the program will ask you if you want change the runway !

Finally to contact Tower in final after vectored, the sentence "established on localizer" seems to work !!! But "established on ILS" don't  !

The "ready to take off" is a total disapointment. 2 times on 3 the tower asks me if I want to change runway with the option "27R Y/N and so ...)

However saying "at holding point runway 27R" works....sometimes...not every time.

Similarly "Clear of the active" or "vacated runway" (All these phrases are basic and often used in the real)=no answer but "request taxi to park" works.

Like you say in your post it would be nice to have a list of the phrases that work. In the Interfacing Pro Flight Emulator ATC.Pdf file several sentences don't , why ?!

Finally I come to think that I like very much MCE and PF3....but...separately Unless I can get a flight from A to Z without having to "fight", it just kills the fun and "immersion".

Regards,

Richard

[glider1 90]

4 hours ago, DrumsArt said:

Similarly "Clear of the active" or "vacated runway" (All these phrases are basic and often used in the real)=no answer but "request taxi to park"

I thought I was the only one. I think ideally what MCE could offer is a debug mode so that we can speak a PF3 phrase and see if MCE inteprets it with the correct keyboard number.

I've made a list for myself of phrases that work reliably for me, even though they are too simple in reality and the list is incomplete because I'm still experimenting. The recognition accuracy of MCE other than the PF3 integration is very good.

"Tower xxx ready VFR to Whiskey Alpha Juliet Whiskey" (emphasising "V")

"Tower xxx ready for taxi"

"Tower xxx request runway xx"

"Tower xxx at runway xx ready for takeoff"

'Ground, xxx with Mike ready to copy ATC"

"Ground, xxx ready for taxi IFR"

"Approach, xxx request flight level XXX" (sometimes approach misunderstands the exact flight level I'm after. I also don't bother explaining why I want another flight level because it confuses it sometimes)

"support service xxx request en-route weather advisories"

"support service xxx  please change my flight plan"

"support service xxx please close my flight-plan"

Reading back instructions from approach/departure works pretty reliably. Sometimes when there are problems I simply reply with "roger" in order to move on.

[RALF9636 1,882]

Thanks for your contribution, DrumsArt and glider1!

 

It's interesting to see that I am not alone with these problems and that you have almost exactly the same experience as I have.

Even though I haven't written down a list of working/not working phrases for me yet, from memory I can exactly confirm many of your examples.

 

So there must be a basic problem with the MCE voice recogntion for PF3.

Outside the PF3 interaction the correct voice recognition rate of MCE is very good, probably more than 90 %. That is valid for all FO commands, communication with the ramp coordinator, the GSX interaction and all voxkey commands.

But for the PF3 interaction - involving pressing the PTT button - the correct recognition rate is maybe 50 % only.

 

Not to be misunderstood here: I love MCE - and PF3. And since some enhancements to the MCE-PF3 interaction are said to be in progress I'm sure that this will be improved too.

 

As for now, my "last resort" if MCE/PF3 just does not understand me is my voxkey profile where I have set up a command for each PF3 hotkey for all ATC stations. These always work.

 

[FS++ 707]

Thanks for feedback guys.

This will be addressed this month.

As for those using the DEL key in PF3, suggest you disable "Use DEL key" in MCE UI and only use joystick as PTT.

[DrumsArt 270]

On 11/04/2017 at 5:44 AM, glider1 said:

I think ideally what MCE could offer is a debug mode so that we can speak a PF3 phrase and see if MCE inteprets it with the correct keyboard number.

 

I agree, it's a very good idea...

On 11/04/2017 at 7:49 AM, RALF9636 said:

As for now, my "last resort" if MCE/PF3 just does not understand me is my voxkey profile where I have set up a command for each PF3 hotkey for all ATC stations. These always work.

 

Interesting, I had completely forgotten that there was this option

On 11/04/2017 at 1:48 PM, FS++ said:

Thanks for feedback guys.

This will be addressed this month.

As for those using the DEL key in PF3, suggest you disable "Use DEL key" in MCE UI and only use joystick as PTT.

Thank you Gerald for quick and great support.

Regards,

Richard

[glider1 90]

On 4/11/2017 at 3:49 PM, RALF9636 said:

Outside the PF3 interaction the correct voice recognition rate of MCE is very good, probably more than 90 %. That is valid for all FO commands, communication with the ramp coordinator, the GSX interaction and all voxkey commands.

But for the PF3 interaction - involving pressing the PTT button - the correct recognition rate is maybe 50 % only.

Yep that is my experience too on the 90% verses 50% stat. I managed to acquire the hand over from approach to tower in an IFR flight by simply saying "tower xxx with you". Anything more elaborate caused problems. I'm not sure whether in a VFR flight I am able to make contact with tower using the same phrase. I think I have to add "tower xxx with you VFR" and it worked (will have to check).

It must be a hell of a lot of work to get MCE to recognise all the phrase variants in PF3. Really appreciate the support too.

[FS++ 707]

4 hours ago, glider1 said:

It must be a hell of a lot of work to get MCE to recognise all the phrase variants in PF3. Really appreciate the support too.

It's not so much getting the phases to be recognized more easily. They would be if they were always ON.

The challenge is to dynamically disable voice commands for other speech contexts (Commands, checklist, rampies etc...) and only enable ATC commands temporarily (while PTT is down).

That means, user should not transmit too early (before the commands are ready), nor release PTT before speech engine gets the chance to parse ATC related speech.

PTT can really make or break the experience. A shaky joystick button that loses contact for a microsecond for instance would wreak havoc

The small issue with PF3 is the introduction of the DEL key functionality, and my understanding it's a toggle. And MCE would see it as...

Disable other speech contexts (FO Commands, checklist, rampies etc...)

Enable ATC commands

Immediately after, Disable ATC commands and re-enable other speech contexts.

When the expected flow is....

Disable other speech contexts (FO Commands, checklist, rampies etc...)(following DEL key down as detected in-sim by fsInsider.dll)

Enable ATC commands

Recognize ATC speech if possible and no later than a couple of seconds after PTT is released

Disable ATC commands,

Enable FO and other speech contexts (FO Commands, checklist, rampies etc...)(following DEL key UP as detected in-sim by fsInsider.dll)

Therefore, advice is to either use DEL key feature in PF3 and disable it in MCE, or keep DEL key in MCE and not use the DEL key feature in PF3.

[DrumsArt 270]

2 hours ago, FS++ said:

It's not so much getting the phases to be recognized more easily. They would be if they were always ON.

The challenge is to dynamically disable voice commands for other speech contexts (Commands, checklist, rampies etc...) and only enable ATC commands temporarily (while PTT is down).

Therefore, advice is to either use DEL key feature in PF3 and disable it in MCE, or keep DEL key in MCE and not use the DEL key feature in PF3.

Hi Gerald,

Please, do you think that the Glider1's idea would it be feasible ?

"I think ideally what MCE could offer is a debug mode so that we can speak a PF3 phrase and see if MCE inteprets it with the correct keyboard number."

So users could establish an exact list of sentences that work or not in all the contexts of the flight. This list at the end would be communicated to you. This would probably save you time and in the end we would have a perfectly "married" MCE + PF3.

If it is doable, may I suggest that the debug option/program can run without launching PF3. This would save time without needing to reload a situation to test several sentences (for example contact tower during approach). On this subject even if PF3 can now save a flight, the backup conditions are quite limited.

Thank you and Regards,

Richard

 

 

 

 

[RALF9636 1,882]

1 hour ago, DrumsArt said:

Hi Gerald,

Please, do you think that the Glider1's idea would it be feasible ?

"I think ideally what MCE could offer is a debug mode so that we can speak a PF3 phrase and see if MCE inteprets it with the correct keyboard number."

So users could establish an exact list of sentences that work or not in all the contexts of the flight. This list at the end would be communicated to you. This would probably save you time and in the end we would have a perfectly "married" MCE + PF3.

If it is doable, may I suggest that the debug option/program can run without launching PF3. This would save time without needing to reload a situation to test several sentences (for example contact tower during approach). On this subject even if PF3 can now save a flight, the backup conditions are quite limited.

Thank you and Regards,

Richard

 

Yes, I was also looking for something like that since my first days with MCE and PF3.

 

When I just wanted to try some phrases and see if and how they work, it always involved doing a full flight with PF3 (and getting into trouble there of course because of the commands just issued for testing),  because for example it is not possible to test a phrase which would be expected on Approach frequency when you are e.g. on Ground frequency. That is very smart of course for the normal use of MCE but it makes trying out things very cumbersome.

 

Gerald, very interesting about the DEL functionality. But would that also explain why some phrases work better than others? And would that problem be completely out of the way by just disabling the DEL function in MCE and using the joystick button instead?

Happy Easter to all of the MCE Team!

 

[FS++ 707]

2 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Gerald, very interesting about the DEL functionality. But would that also explain why some phrases work better than others? And would that problem be completely out of the way by just disabling the DEL function in MCE and using the joystick button instead?

Happy Easter to all of the MCE Team!

 

The speech grammar (the set of acceptable sentences) plays a crucial part too.

Will get back to you on the debugging thing.

Happy Easter everyone.