Payware Add On Vendor Support.

[Steve Halpern 176]

The main thing is that as long as you have a working email address, you should need no human intervention on our part...Email Address >>> Retrieve your order numbersLost Password (last 4 card digits) >>> Get them using your order number and email.Lost Key >>> Get them using your order number and email.Etc....The option to get to the various categories of tickets is available once you click on the "Create New Ticket" button.

[Guest allcott]

>Allcott,>>Things may have changed since you ordered from Flight 1. A>replacement key is emailed to the ORIGINAL email that you used>to place the order with them. Second is that I have ordered 7>products with them, each product is specific to the email, I>guess you might be thinking of Sim flight were the account is>specific to the email and not the product specific to the>email. Third is that some of those products were purchased>almost 4 years ago, how many credit cards have you shredded in>4 years.>>Now please help me in how you were able to get a replacement>password when you don't have access to the email account they>have on file? Everything is sent to that email. Also please>let me know how I can get a new key activated when the credit>card used is long gone. I'd love to install my Ultimate>traffic today if possible.>>Why isn't it OK to post here on this forum? This forum gets>looked at by a lot more people than the Flight 1 does. I'm>sharing the experiences I have had with payware vendors and>who knows if a number of us post about having these issues>maybe Flight 1 could use that feedback to improve on their>system. >>ThanksThis has obviously been covered in the intervening period, but I wanted you to know I did see your reply. In simple terms: I got it right because I backed everything up. You got it wrong because you didn't. The credit card argument is totally irrelevant. It's only the four digit number that is important, and if that bothers you because you frequently change cards, then BACK IT UP. or use the automated system to change the number to something that DOESN'T change! It's YOUR option! Or just write the number down somewhere! The one item I needed to change the password on was purely and simply to bring the code in line with all the others.Sorry, but all this thread has done is show that you don't understand your own obligations toward online purchases, or how to manipulate the Flight 1 system to recover lost or changed information. The only lesson for other people to take on board from all this is to do what you've been told by several other respondents and BACK THINGS UP!Glad you got things working again, and to finish please tell us: Have you created a CD or floppy with all this information stored, for safety's sake?Allcott

[boshar 6]

Hi Allcot,Its great that you see it as an obligation as a customer to do all those backups and do the install song and dance everytime you want a fresh install of Windows XP or God forbid an install on your own personal laptop. I however will never call that a normal procedure. I want to install a product and be done with it. Why is it that Flight1 CD products are so much easier (they cost far more to create than the download products so they wil deliver less profit).The things you call normal here (making backups, keeping an andministration about credit cards and former mailadresses) is what keeps the less computer experienced users away from these online releases.The more experienced users have a choice of:A. Putting up with those rediculus protection featuresB. Finding away around those featuresorC. Wait for an eventual CD releaseI'm in the C camp myself so Flight1 is losing out on extra profit from me due to their wrapper system. I wil never go for option B but for the computer savy user that is an option and with Flight1 giving away full installers and putting up with costs associated with distributing these files the outcome is That the B users not only take away income they are actualy costing Flight1 real money because they will be downloading the installers just like the legal customers do.Harry

[Steve Halpern 176]

If you backup your keys it is most easy, but all you need is just an email address.The rule with our system is that if you have a good, valid, email address, then you never have to worry if you do not have your keys, licenses, or anything. For 90% of our products, you can fully restore things on your own, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, simply using your email address, even if you lost 100% of all traces of your order information (e.g. order number, and even the product name).

[Guest]

This thread is about customer support, not product quality ;)

[Guest allcott]

>Hi Allcot,>>Its great that you see it as an obligation as a customer to do>all those backups and do the install song and dance everytime>you want a fresh install of Windows XP or God forbid an>install on your own personal laptop. I however will never call>that a normal procedure. I want to install a product and be>done with it. Why is it that Flight1 CD products are so much>easier (they cost far more to create than the download>products so they wil deliver less profit).>>The things you call normal here (making backups, keeping an>andministration about credit cards and former mailadresses) is>what keeps the less computer experienced users away from these>online releases.>>The more experienced users have a choice of:>A. Putting up with those rediculus protection features>B. Finding away around those features>>or>>C. Wait for an eventual CD release>>I'm in the C camp myself so Flight1 is losing out on extra>profit from me due to their wrapper system. I wil never go for>option B but for the computer savy user that is an option and>with Flight1 giving away full installers and putting up with>costs associated with distributing these files the outcome is>That the B users not only take away income they are actualy>costing Flight1 real money because they will be downloading>the installers just like the legal customers do.>>HarryYou're quite right Harry, I DO see it as my obligation to protect my investment. Why would I expect Flight 1 to do it for me? Did they come round and install it as part of the purchase contract and I missed them? Did I employ them as archivists and I missed that too?And NOTHING in the Flight 1 wrapper system prevents the user backing up the three files necessary for complete reinstallation - the wrapper, the key, and a small text file with the password. Then you have your CD, and I have my backup. But as you're not a customer of their wrapper system you wouldn't know that.Nice to see we agree! :)Allcott

[boshar 6]

I was a customer of the flight wrapper key system once. I bought the Reality XP Jetline4 gauges. I even managed to 'survive' the flight wrapper upgrade whereby I had to sendout for a new key even though I had my old one backed up.I've now switched back to FSing on my new desktop and after a few moving houses and a lot of personal stuff I can't find my recent backup disks or the code from my old credit card.Sure its possible for me to contact Flight1 about this and to get it sorted out. But I feel the time I have to invest into getting this addon working again is just to much. So I won't do it. The experience I had is the basis of my desicion not to use the Flight1 wrapper system.I thought it might be wise to tell Flight1 I have this problem with their wrapper system as it does cost them a part of their profits.Now I can buy stuff from FSgenesis and Phoenix Simulations (PSS)and all I have to do for reinstalling their add-ons is login to their website and download it again. Pure simple and thats how things (in my view) should be.I can buy via simmarket and al have to do is run the backed up installer and I can get at my stuff. I don't need an internet connection or permission to do this. The software vendor can be long gone but I will stil be able to use my add-on.To me the flight wrapper system feels binding and limiting so maybe that is the answer. Just a feeling on my part. I feel that its ridiculous to make it so hard on your legal custommers to fully use your product while a dishonest pirate can just install the product after downloading from the very same server.

[boshar 6]

Abacus / Easy Computing (Dutch publishing partner of Abacus). Has CD's in many retail outlets and caters for the 'light' simmer that migth not even come in this forum. Among the things they released are Mesh by Justin. Aircraft by Carenado and Creation Tools like FSDS that are used to produce a large part of the freeware aircraft we all tend to download here. Their recent EZ scenery has sparked a large upload surge on the AVSIM servers and made scenery a lot easier for the casual fs fan.So sure we could be elitist and make sarcastic remarks about some of their add-ons and the people that just aren't hardcore enough for our elite.Or we could recognise that Abacus is an important publisher that has done a lot to get the first time FS user in touch with the add-on phenomenon.Groeten,Harry

[Guest Len]

Far be it from me to defend F1 as I had a disagreement with one of their owners regarding a product which eventually was refunded to me. It was not a pleasant experience. And in addition I had my own recent problems with the wrapper system with the password. Entering the wrong password was my difficulty. Tried a couple of times with a password on a prior product and tried the last four digits of the card I thought I had used at the time - both wrong and the key was accordingly deactivated. This problem becomes compounded when you change computers (3 times in the last 5 years as I have) and try to bring over files burn't on CD's etc. Did a trouble ticket. Entered some information on their auto system to try again and I eventually got the password and a new key. This was for the DF 727 upgrade. HOWEVER, despite these irritants it is still the most secure and best system out there. Certainly head and shoulders above SimMarket/AeroSoft (they both use the same system) for example. And I have bought numerous products from these vendors and others. So I can't agree with the rating you gave with respect to F1 but I can empathize with your frustration to be sure.

[G7USL 117]

>The main thing is that as long as you have a working email>address, you should need no human intervention on our part...>>Email Address >>> Retrieve your order numbers>Lost Password (last 4 card digits) >>> Get them using your>order number and email.>Lost Key >>> Get them using your order number and email.>>Etc....>>The option to get to the various categories of tickets is>available once you click on the "Create New Ticket" button.Steve,Flight One dosen't accept E-Mail, even on your own admittance?The experience I am going through at the moment trying to get keys for the LEVEL-D 767, Baron 58 and A36 Bonanza has soured my opinions of Flight One.For me, like others it will be disk's only from now on.Dave T. .........On the Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

[Steve Halpern 176]

Dave,You are not correct in your understanding of my email comments. If you go to http://www.flight1.com/view.asp?page=wrapperservice, you will see that everything you need is right there, and if you have an email address that is still valid, you can do it all. Plus, you get full download protection in that you can redownload at any time for no additional fees.Yes, we do not accept email any more, but a look through our Ticket system will show how this is far more reliable than using email.And, if you do not have a valid email, you use the ticket submission system to tell us which products you need updated.We are working on a multi-lingual presentation to show people how to use our e-commerce system. We think this will help lower concerns people have.

[Steve Halpern 176]

Len,Do not forget that you never need to remember your password... Just use https://www.flight1.com/view.asp?page=lostpwd and you can have your password emailed to you.Also, if the key is deactivated because of too many invalid password requests, then you can simply reactivate it your self at https://www.flight1.com/view.asp?page=kman once you get the password at the above link.But from this thread it appears it would be good to let people select their own passwords or even change their email address themselves. I think that can be added.

[W2DR 1,859]

Steve - Allowing us (the users) to change the passwords and/or e-mails is a super idea. This would make an already great system even better. I've had to use all the options to get my "stuff" reinstalled at one time or another and have never had any significant issues at all. Keep up the good work.Doug

[Guest Len]

Thanks Steve. No, the problem was that I had sent in my order number on your auto system in order to get the relevant password and for some reason F1 didn't recognize the order number. I tried twice as carefully entering as possible. That's when I complained and then sent in the trouble ticket. I sent it in again with the request for the new key and all was ok. Don't know what went wrong...What might be suggested is as you stated, but 1 unique password by the purchaser for all products. Kinda of like your own account where the password is yours for all products which can be changed from time to time if the user would like to. It's good particularly if you use the F1 system alot (as I do). That may or may not be a security issue however.