Mid Air Collision,...

[Guest ianrivaldosmith]

Hi again all,Just been watching a program called 'mid air collision over britain' on sky one (uk).I could have swore during phases of the program they were using fs9!!Anyone else watch it? scary stuff I must admit, and for ATC and the way its managed, I think I would rather be very pleased with FS9's ATC!! Seems a #### of a lot safer!Ian

[Guest Adeym]

Yep, I saw it and I was impressed. I thought the CGI was miles better then anything FS9 could achieve. The blend of real stories and the fictional events were really insightful and makes you realise just how bad a situation it would be to happen in real life.

[Guest Tim W]

Yep, definately saw a "Landmark" 737 at one point!cheershttp://members.chello.nl/t.westnutt/realair.gif

[Guest jboweruk]

Was that the program where they had a scenario of massive road chaos due to snow, then two planes (one outbound and one inbound) collide after the inbound one is told to go around by an ATC girl?

[AlaskanFlyboy 7]

>Anyone else watch it? scary stuff I must admit, and for ATC>and the way its managed, I think I would rather be very>pleased with FS9's ATC!! Seems a #### of a lot safer!I didn't watch it but I've read enough NTSB case studies, either shown in ground school, on websites (like www.planecrashinfo.com), and books such as The Pilot's Communication HandbookIt's generally a break down in communication caused by assumption, mishearing, or even dyslexia. Pride or fear can have a place too ,unfortunately, and they have a feeling they didn't hear it right but are either too prideful to admit they misheard it, or are affraid of getting yelled at by the controller or ostrasized by other pilots.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

[Guest RiddlePilot]

Dyslexia?...pilots don't have dislexia. I believe its called a "readback/hearback" error, or maybe a slight case of transposition when it comes down to the phonetic alphabet or numbers.

[Guest ianrivaldosmith]

well In the program it was a fact of pilots reacting to slow to TCAS warnings. In britain alone last year there were 200 near mid air collisions! within seconds of each other. what the program was trying to highlight (which it really really did a good job of) is that our skies are too busy for the current system to handle! It relys on humans not makeing one error, which of course isnt possible!

[AlaskanFlyboy 7]

The dislexia I was refering to was number transposition. Hearing and reading back the correct number but in your head when you actually make the turn, you screw it up, like you hear and read back "turn right heading 030" then turn to 300. Or like being told to land runway 12 but you end up going for runway 21.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

[AlaskanFlyboy 7]

Your channels aren't as biased towards sensationalism as ours are, are they? I know FOX has ticked me off on a few occassions with it's sensationalized stories about aviation.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

In my opinion, the programme was frankly sensationalist tripe as is most of the stuff the Sky produces. Also, I don't know where people get their facts from, there are nothing like 200 near misses a year. There were 90 airproxes. However, an airprox is when standard seperation has not been achieved and this is along way from a near collision. The currect stats indicate that 85% of airproxes posed no risk of collision. The closest would be a TCAS RA of which there are very very few actual occurances. In fact I can only find 3 during a three year periond.As another facet of that program's irresponsibility, NATS wanted to review and be involved in the program. They were denied access and neither was their input sought.Utter tripe!There I feel better now.

[AlaskanFlyboy 7]

Sounds like our media in the States. Hehe. It's gotten so bad that AOPA asvises you not to speak to them at all, and has offered a course for those that do need to speak to them. There's been too many edit jobs to twist your words so far you can't even see how they logically got there. FOX's one about the nuclear power plants was one such example. The pilot was asked, are you allowed to fly here anytime you want? To which he replied with something like, "With proper authorization and we're restricted to how close we can get, sure you can." In the show that aired, they edited it to just "You can."----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

LOL! Doesn't suprise me. In the UK any documentaries produced by Channel 5, Sky or ITV will be just like that. However, even the BBC is prone to sillyness. They did this frankly stupid docudrama "The Day Britain Stopped" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/the_day_britain_stopped/default.stm)The problem with the docudramas, is unless you know the business, you simply have trouble telling the story apart from the reality. This case is particuarly funny, because Heathrow handles sudden stoppages occasionally (usually due to West Drayton computer system going down would you believe) and there are no fireballs, nothing plummets, no children were at risk, nobody would notice if it wasn't for the odd cancellation, the odd divert, the odd bit of inconvenience. In addition, NATS has handled increasingly more traffic each year and so has Heathrow. So much for saturated!!You gotta laugh really :D

[Guest jboweruk]

200 airmisses? Not a chance, we get to hear about most of 'em on the news here as they are prone to a lot of witnesses. I doubt we've had 200 airmisses in 10 years let alone 1. Yes our skies are busy, very, but they are also among the safest skies in world. Our whole ATC system is undergoing a major upgrade and new systems being worked on all the time, including one to allow pilots to talk to ATC who don't have a clue of the language, a computerised translation system so that instructions can be read rather than spoken in the native language.It's a fact that anywhere in the world the most dangerous places are where the military flies to their own set of rules and come into conflict with Civilian traffic.

[AlaskanFlyboy 7]

We haven't had an issue with military/civilian conflicts in the US, but they atleast publish their training routes for us.edit- Though the B2 stealth bombers like to #### off Spokane Approach Control from time to time when they clear them into Fairchild. They say "going to tower, see ya" and then kick their transponders off to mess with the approach radar.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach