Why is P3D v3 so dark?

[Ray Proudfoot 8,931]

5 minutes ago, GSalden said:

With each single change it would not be needed, but I do it anyway.

Just dl several customer presets , try them and start with the one that pleases you most.

 

Thanks Gerard. Rather than play around with individual settings I will do as you suggest and try another preset. In the long run it probably saves a fair bit of time.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,931]

1 hour ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Ray,

Yes, the 'Prepar3D Tweak Assistant' (PTA) has that as one of its menu options. It will restore those Shader files from backups created when the utility was run for the first time. Also remember to create a backup of the ShadersHLSL folder in P3D root before doing anything else. You may never need it but this will give you another backup.

Actually it was the X-Rite Colormunki Photo and, no, I followed instructions provided by X-Rite who were very helpful. My first attempt was unsuccessful - dare I say it, everything was far too dark! I emailed them for support and they soon sorted me out :) I found that site this morning and thought there might be something in there you would find helpful.

Any PTA Preset is not cast in stone. You can, should you choose, tweak away to your hearts content knowing that you can always recover the original Preset or revert back to P3D default conditions. Just create those backups first! I've lost count of the numbers who have landed themselves in trouble and were unable to recover. We are not allowed to share these P3D Shader files. However you could reinstate the default files by uninstalling and then reinstall the P3D Client. If in doubt consult one of Elaine Dixon's (aka Poppet) excellent tutorials.

Regards,

Mike

Excellent advice, thanks Mike. Rather than tweak an existing one I think I'll try others instead. It's quite quick to load them and I can spend the time more productively.

I'll do some research on the X-Rite ColorMunki Photo. Hopefully better than the Spyder.

[GSalden 4,656]

If by accident you loose your default Shaders , just un-and reinstall P3D Client..

[Ray Proudfoot 8,931]

57 minutes ago, GSalden said:

If by accident you loose your default Shaders , just un-and reinstall P3D Client..

Hopefully that won't happen unless I delete PTA but thanks for the advice. After you've done this a few times I imagine it's dead easy. If I can fly Concorde I should be okay with PTA.

Mike,

I checked the X-Rite Colormunki and it's a bit more than I'm prepared to pay. But the site mentioned by Mike does recommend the Spyder5Pro or Elite. Whilst I have a TV rather than a monitor it can be calibrated as it connects to a PC using HDMI just as a monitor does. It doesn't have specific colour temp or gamma settings but rather a choice of Warm, Cool etc. Gamma is limited to -2 to +2 so a bit crude really.

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It's Full HD 32" Sony LCD TV Model KDL-32W653A. It doesn't appear to support HDR. Is that why the views appear quite dark even with HDR enabled in P3D? ...

The Sony manual you linked didn't provide much information about supported bit depth in the LCD panel ... however, I did notice there was a difference in models when it comes to supported PC formats:

"HDMI IN 1, 2 (KDL-50W68xA only) Video (2D): 1080p (30, 50, 60 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (50, 60 Hz), 720p (30, 50, 60 Hz), 720/24p, 576p, 576i, 480p, 480i, PC Formats Video (3D): Frame Packing 1080p (30 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (50, 60 Hz), 720p (30, 50, 60 Hz), 720/24p Side-by-Side 1080p (50, 60 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (50, 60 Hz), 720p (50, 60 Hz) Over-Under 1080p (30, 50, 60 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (50, 60 Hz), 720p (50, 60 Hz"

The "Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Over-Under" are not support in your KDL-32W653A ... these are 3D formats.  The only reason I bring this up is that 3D TV's tend to support higher data bandwidth.

Any chance you can post a screenshot of how your VC looks using HDR with it's default settings?  Also can you post a screenshot of your NCP "change resolution" section so I can see your settings?

EDIT: saw your P3D screenshots, assume that's default HDR settings?  Are you using 3rd party sky textures (or freeware ones)?  I've seen that look before and it was the result of 3rd party sky textures not really designed for use in P3D with HDR enabled.

Cheers, Rob.

[Cruachan 705]

2 hours ago, GSalden said:

Mike, you are aware that SGSS and MSAA need to have the same value ?

Hi Gerard,

Ha, ha, I knew that was coming! Hitherto I used 4 and 4 not only to achieve optimum AA, but to get rid of the sparkling which made the lettering on the panels of the Real Air Duke virtually unreadable. I was searching for a way to improve P3D performance in the presence of thick cloud. MSAA 8 Samples on its own without SGSSAA helps a lot but that sparkling in the Duke and, indeed, shimmering of some ground textures returned. The reintroduction of 'a touch' of SGSSAA improved things significantly (I still see a little shimmering from time to time) and this has restored legibility in the Duke :)

So, despite what others have said, it does work and I don't see the performance hit seen previously with the traditional settings. Yes, there is a degree of compromise involved with this, but when I say I have upped the AS2016 Cloud layering from my previous 3 to a current setting of 8 (still testing but so far quite encouraging) you will understand why I continue to use the new combo.

Also, the antialiasing is more than acceptable.  

I'm not sure how a 'conflict' would manifest itself but, so far, by doing this I've not seen any downsides. Time will tell - I adopted these new settings only a few days ago. Try it - you never know ;)

Regards,

Mike

[virtualstuff 753]

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks Andre. I'm pleased you agree with me that the screen is too dark. I have increased brightness a little today and it has helped. But I'm going to try Adam's preset and will report back later. I intend to stick to HDR.

Tip: before applying the PTA shader mod I always make a backup from Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3\ShadersHLSL folder and with problems just place it back.

Just to be on the save side I'm aware that the PTA tool makes a backup copy, but have noticed some strange issues with restoring in the past...

So the shader folder size is very small so easy to backup... You could reinstall the client only which will do the job to, but I prefer the simple copy paste method.

Hope it's helpful and hope you get sort it out your screen brightness, because P3D once running with satisfying settings is a great Sim.

Ps. remember that the lightning with cloudy skies will be a lot different (darker, cloud shadows and the shadow options) as opposed in FSX, but as an old timer you probably are already aware of that fact.

Cheers,

[Ray Proudfoot 8,931]

30 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

The Sony manual you linked didn't provide much information about supported bit depth in the LCD panel ... however, I did notice there was a difference in models when it comes to supported PC formats:

"HDMI IN 1, 2 (KDL-50W68xA only) Video (2D): 1080p (30, 50, 60 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (50, 60 Hz), 720p (30, 50, 60 Hz), 720/24p, 576p, 576i, 480p, 480i, PC Formats Video (3D): Frame Packing 1080p (30 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (50, 60 Hz), 720p (30, 50, 60 Hz), 720/24p Side-by-Side 1080p (50, 60 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (50, 60 Hz), 720p (50, 60 Hz) Over-Under 1080p (30, 50, 60 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (50, 60 Hz), 720p (50, 60 Hz"

The "Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Over-Under" are not support in your KDL-32W653A ... these are 3D formats.  The only reason I bring this up is that 3D TV's tend to support higher data bandwidth.

Any chance you can post a screenshot of how your VC looks using HDR with it's default settings?  Also can you post a screenshot of your NCP "change resolution" section so I can see your settings?

EDIT: saw your P3D screenshots, assume that's default HDR settings?  Are you using 3rd party sky textures (or freeware ones)?  I've seen that look before and it was the result of 3rd party sky textures not really designed for use in P3D with HDR enabled.

Cheers, Rob.

Hi Rob,

I realised after reading it the amount of info was minimal. Minimal in 199 languages! I can tell you it has no 3D and no HDR so it's probably an 8-bit display.

The screenshots I posted earlier today were taken a couple of days ago using the settings from your excellent P3Dguide. Or as near as dammit,

I don't understand what NCP is but I'm attaching a screenshot showing what resolutions are available to me. I'm using the native 1920*1080*32.

The sky in the P3D shots was default. I've since installed ASCA but those don't include it.

Anyway, you will have read my other posts today and seen that I've now installed different settings which have improved the overall look with the exception of the ground when viewed from above. It has a strong blue cast so I'm going to try other sets until I find something suitable.

The biggest improvement was turning off mipmapping. It was killing the Concorde VC panel. It's now looking as sharp as it did with FSX. I'm reasonably confident that once I've tried a few different sets using PTA.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,931]

6 minutes ago, awf said:

Tip: before applying the PTA shader mod I always make a backup from Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3\ShadersHLSL folder and with problems just place it back.

Just to be on the save side I'm aware that the PTA tool makes a backup copy, but have noticed some strange issues with restoring in the past...

So the shader folder size is very small so easy to backup... You could reinstall the client only which will do the job to, but I prefer the simple copy paste method.

Hope it's helpful and hope you get sort it out your screen brightness, because P3D once running with satisfying settings is a great Sim.

Ps. remember that the lightning with cloudy skies will be a lot different (darker, cloud shadows and the shadow options) as opposed in FSX, but as an old timer you probably are already aware of that fact.

Cheers,

Thanks for that Andre. I will make a separate backup because as you say it's only a small set of files.

I have seen several improvements:-

• No more tearing of the scenery especially when panning or the aircraft is turning.
• Very smooth performance compared to FSX.
• VAS hold up better.
• After installing ASCA and AS16 as you descend through cloud it really is much more realistic than FSX. Solid cloud rather than the wispy stuff that seemed transparent.

Although I have yet to install MyTraffic5 I'm sure than with sensible settings I won't encounter OOMs. I rarely did in FSX as I kept settings at sensible levels for Concorde.

[virtualstuff 753]

12 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Although I have yet to install MyTraffic5 I'm sure than with sensible settings I won't encounter OOMs. I rarely did in FSX as I kept settings at sensible levels for Concorde.

Correct Ray the same holds for the settings in P3D wise with sliders and balance the stuff and you probably will never see an oom (I never seen one with my regular use, can invoke one but that's a different story).

The only settings I use in my P3D config are:

This one is more important for terrain loading as in FSX

In case of an I7:

[JOBSCHEDULER]
AffinityMask= (Correct one for your system ) I have 117

Set GROUND_SHADOW_TEXTURE_SIZE=2048 to GROUND_SHADOW_TEXTURE_SIZE=1024

AUTOGEN_TREE_MAX_DRAW_DISTANCE=9500.000000 to AUTOGEN_TREE_MAX_DRAW_DISTANCE=8500.000000

TEXTUREMAXLOAD=27

With your card I would set it the same as I have done will relieve your CPU TESSELLATION_FACTOR=90

UseGlobalTerrainView=True

OPTIMIZE_PARTS=1

That's it no more tweaks here just flying :-)

 

Cheers,

[Glynn 405]

18 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks for that Andre. I will make a separate backup because as you say it's only a small set of files.

I have seen several improvements:-

• No more tearing of the scenery especially when panning or the aircraft is turning.
• Very smooth performance compared to FSX.
• VAS hold up better.
• After installing ASCA and AS16 as you descend through cloud it really is much more realistic than FSX. Solid cloud rather than the wispy stuff that seemed transparent.

Although I have yet to install MyTraffic5 I'm sure than with sensible settings I won't encounter OOMs. I rarely did in FSX as I kept settings at sensible levels for Concorde.

If you still have FSX installed you will not need to reinstall Mytraffic.

Just add it to your C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3\Simobjects.cfg

[Entry.nn]
PATH=path to your /MyTraffic\Aircraft
ACTIVE=true
REQUIRED=true

Then add Mytraffic to your C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3\Scenery.cfg as you did in FSX.

[Area.140]
Title=MyTraffic
Local=path to your \MyTraffic
Active=TRUE
Required=FALSE
Layer=140

 

[Cruachan 705]

26 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I've seen that look before and it was the result of 3rd party sky textures not really designed for use in P3D with HDR enabled.

Hi Ray,

Again I should underline the importance of using the right set of Sky textures that matches what was intended by the author of a Preset. The P3D defaults don't cut it. If you don't go with recommended Sky textures for a particular Preset then, yes, you will probably have to do some additional tweaking.

Do you have REX4 TD? If so then you can follow Adam's guidance as to which textures to use with his 21.11 Preset. Just install the texture groups one by one for Dawn, Day and Dusk. All the details and explanation are on Adam's web page: http://www.nzfsim.org/index.php?dsp=PTA

When you installed Adam's 21.11 preset did you see any reported errors in the window at the bottom right of the GUI? Eight (8) Shader files are modified, not six:

ShadersHLSL folder: General.fx, GPUTerrain.fx, GPUTerrain.fxh, Shadow.fxh, Cloud.fx, FuncLibrary.fxh

PostProcess (subfolder): FXAAResolve.hlsl, HDR.hlsl

You may have to scroll up to see all the entries in the log.

Don't be afraid to use PTA but try to avoid getting into a muddle - Keep it simple! Once a Preset has been loaded and Applied you can change the value of any PTA parameter used in that Preset. If things do get out of hand then simple reload the Preset and try again. However, I have never felt the need to change anything in Adam's latest Preset, but success depends on using those recommended Cloud sets because that's what he used when developing his Preset. A wrong choice of cloud sets will have a significant effect on how all the displayed components of the sim are lit.

Like Gerard, I too got into the habit of restoring the default Shader files before loading and Applying a Preset. This is probably unnecessary, but it does ensure the P3D shaders destined to be modified by a PTA Preset are in their default clean state. The relevant menu options in the PTA GUI are found under the 'Actions' tab.

You'll get there, don't worry. Just keep it simple and don't be distracted into trying other Presets for now. This is just as likely to cause frustration as trying to tweak stuff before you understand what affects what. Plenty time later for all that once you get the hang of it and if you still feel inclined to give it a try.

Regards,

Mike

[Cruachan 705]

NCP = NVIDIA Control Panel (accessed by right-clicking on your desktop.

REX4 TD = REX4 Texture Direct

Mike

[Ray Proudfoot 8,931]

25 minutes ago, Glynn said:

If you still have FSX installed you will not need to reinstall Mytraffic.

Just add it to your C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3\Simobjects.cfg

[Entry.nn]
PATH=path to your /MyTraffic\Aircraft
ACTIVE=true
REQUIRED=true

Then add Mytraffic to your C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3\Scenery.cfg as you did in FSX.

[Area.140]
Title=MyTraffic
Local=path to your \MyTraffic
Active=TRUE
Required=FALSE
Layer=140

 

Good man! I was dreading installing that as it's far from straight-forward. But then I remembered it's installed into C:\Program Files (x86) so is independent of FSX/P3D.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,931]

3 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

NCP = NVIDIA Control Panel (accessed by right-clicking on your desktop.

REX4 TD = REX4 Texture Direct

Mike

I use the TV to change contrast, brightness etc, not Nvidia.

And no, I don't have that REX product. I do have ASCA though. Is anything in that configurable?

Mike, I appreciate your last detailed reply. I'll check things tomorrow. It's been another long day and I need to chill.