Why is P3D v3 so dark?

[Cruachan 705]

Hi Ray,

I use NCP to manage the 3D settings for Prepar3D:

It's worth keeping a copy of your settings (you saw mine in an earlier post) so they can be reinstated easily following a graphic driver update, assuming you do a clean install, which I do...always via GeForce Experience and never experienced any issues.

Regarding ASCA, see the image of my current settings in the earlier post:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/508664-why-is-p3d-v3-so-dark/?do=findComment&comment=3609587

Note: 'Sky Colors' is unchecked because I don't want ASCA overwriting my REX4 TD Sky textures. 

Adam mentions FEX Clouds but I find the AS2016/ASCA combo does a brilliant job and seem to be fully compatible with those tweaks affecting cloud lighting from PTA.

You've got some weighty bedtime reading tonight as you review the content of this thread

Regards,

Mike

[Guest]

Hi Ray,

Here are the NCP settings I was talking about (red circle):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw0Q-fAfEZwycWo3VjRJVTAtQU0/view?usp=sharing

You might want to experiment with Bloom settings ... here is an image with low Bloom setting:

Here is an image with high bloom setting:

Cheers, Rob.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

10 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Hi Ray,

Here are the NCP settings I was talking about (red circle):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw0Q-fAfEZwycWo3VjRJVTAtQU0/view?usp=sharing

You might want to experiment with Bloom settings ... here is an image with low Bloom setting:

Here is an image with high bloom setting:

Cheers, Rob.

Thanks Rob. A higher bloom setting certainly brightens things up but at some loss of detail on the fuselage.

I'll post the Nvidia settings shortly.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

13 hours ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Ray,

I use NCP to manage the 3D settings for Prepar3D:

It's worth keeping a copy of your settings (you saw mine in an earlier post) so they can be reinstated easily following a graphic driver update, assuming you do a clean install, which I do...always via GeForce Experience and never experienced any issues.

Regarding ASCA, see the image of my current settings in the earlier post:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/508664-why-is-p3d-v3-so-dark/?do=findComment&comment=3609587

Note: 'Sky Colors' is unchecked because I don't want ASCA overwriting my REX4 TD Sky textures. 

Adam mentions FEX Clouds but I find the AS2016/ASCA combo does a brilliant job and seem to be fully compatible with those tweaks affecting cloud lighting from PTA.

You've got some weighty bedtime reading tonight as you review the content of this thread

Regards,

Mike

Mike,

How do those settings affect P3D? There's no mention of doing that in Rob's P3D guide. Is that just your personal choice or something that is recommended by others?

I'll be trying a few other settings today but after 8 days of installing etc. I'm starting to get fatigued and need a break.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

@Rob Ainscough, Here are the settings you asked for. The Output Dynamic Range is set to Limited and I'm wondering if Full might be better. I'm switching to it for now.

The Output Colour Format has 3 options, RGB, YCbCr422 and YCbCr444.

[virtualstuff 758]

59 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Rob Ainscough, Here are the settings you asked for. The Output Dynamic Range is set to Limited and I'm wondering if Full might be better. I'm switching to it for now.

The Output Colour Format has 3 options, RGB, YCbCr422 and YCbCr444.

 

Hi Ray you could change the output dynamic range to full instead of limited ;-)

As for bloom it's indeed far overdone effect in P3D and you will loose details with a to high setting...

Cheers,

 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

1 hour ago, awf said:

Hi Ray you could change the output dynamic range to full instead of limited ;-)

As for bloom it's indeed far overdone effect in P3D and you will loose details with a to high setting...

Cheers,

 

Thanks Andre. Done that. No obvious difference.

But I am going mad trying to work out why Adam's preset has colours so blue compared to the default. This is a shot using default settings at FL300. Colour balance is pretty neutral if a little lacking in contrast and brightness.

But having applied adam's preset and reduced the Blue level in Scenery Tone Adjustment it still looks dreadful.

I did revert to original shaders and PTA confirmed that in the info box at the bottom. Why does it look so crap?

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

I've gone through all the options in PTA and it's the Rayleigh settings that are applying this blue cast. I've disabled it. In fact I've gone back to near defaults with contrast increased from 0.5 to 0.7 and brightness increased.

This is a far more satisfactory look. I shall investigate each option in slow time but for now I am reasonably happy with the look.

[Cruachan 705]

3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Why does it look so crap?

Hi Ray,

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Sky Textures. I won't pretend to understand how it works, but I believe  there is information coded in the top left hand corner of each Sky texture image which P3D uses to determine how the scene is lit. Others will correct me if I am wrong.

However, the inescapable fact remains that you should be using the same Sky texture sets as were used during the development of Adam's 21.11 Preset. If you really don't want to invest in REX4 TD then I suggest you return the sim to its default state and start again with a Preset from another author.

1. Restore the default Shaders

2. Rename Prepar3D.cfg and the sim will build a fresh configuration file at next run. Then restore your preferred settings from within the running sim.

If you haven't done so already then please look at the 'Helpful Links' section at the foot of Yuri's (aka KNOSSOS) web page: http://1coder.ru/PTA/

Should you intend to experiment with the use of different Sky Textures then do remember to back up the defaults.

I appreciate that this must all seem like too much effort but, I assure you, eventually the rewards will speak for themselves. We have all claimed this particular hill and, indeed, many others have been surmounted as part of the optimisation process and very few of us have decided to return to FSX.

Regarding NCP and my settings:  https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/508664-why-is-p3d-v3-so-dark/?do=findComment&comment=3609781

These should only be used as guideline examples and are not set in stone (except on my platform!). The default Program Settings for Prepar3D appear with the installation of a graphics driver, the other entries were modified to provide me with the best compromise between performance and appearance.

Bloom is a tricky setting to get right. Too much and you will quickly blow out detail in the more brightly lit areas of the scene or object. Think of an overexposed image taken with a camera inducing clipping and those high peaks seen at the far right of the image histogram. After applying Adam's 21.11 Preset you will have noted the relatively low value used for Bloom. That's the magic of PTA!

Hang in there! It took us a while to get where we are and most of us enjoyed the trip. If you have any questions regarding your PTA settings then try posting in the PTA Forum here at AVSIM:  https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/489018-prepar3d-tweak-assistant-pta/

There are many experienced users who, I am sure, will be only too delighted to help out.

Regards,

Mike

 

 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

2 hours ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Ray,

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Sky Textures. I won't pretend to understand how it works, but I believe  there is information coded in the top left hand corner of each Sky texture image which P3D uses to determine how the scene is lit. Others will correct me if I am wrong.

However, the inescapable fact remains that you should be using the same Sky texture sets as were used during the development of Adam's 21.11 Preset. If you really don't want to invest in REX4 TD then I suggest you return the sim to its default state and start again with a Preset from another author.

1. Restore the default Shaders

2. Rename Prepar3D.cfg and the sim will build a fresh configuration file at next run. Then restore your preferred settings from within the running sim.

If you haven't done so already then please look at the 'Helpful Links' section at the foot of Yuri's (aka KNOSSOS) web page: http://1coder.ru/PTA/

Should you intend to experiment with the use of different Sky Textures then do remember to back up the defaults.

I appreciate that this must all seem like too much effort but, I assure you, eventually the rewards will speak for themselves. We have all claimed this particular hill and, indeed, many others have been surmounted as part of the optimisation process and very few of us have decided to return to FSX.

Regarding NCP and my settings:  https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/508664-why-is-p3d-v3-so-dark/?do=findComment&comment=3609781

These should only be used as guideline examples and are not set in stone (except on my platform!). The default Program Settings for Prepar3D appear with the installation of a graphics driver, the other entries were modified to provide me with the best compromise between performance and appearance.

Bloom is a tricky setting to get right. Too much and you will quickly blow out detail in the more brightly lit areas of the scene or object. Think of an overexposed image taken with a camera inducing clipping and those high peaks seen at the far right of the image histogram. After applying Adam's 21.11 Preset you will have noted the relatively low value used for Bloom. That's the magic of PTA!

Hang in there! It took us a while to get where we are and most of us enjoyed the trip. If you have any questions regarding your PTA settings then try posting in the PTA Forum here at AVSIM:  https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/489018-prepar3d-tweak-assistant-pta/

There are many experienced users who, I am sure, will be only too delighted to help out.

Regards,

Mike

 

 

Thank you Mike for your patience and understanding. I have achieved much in the last few hours. I have reset back to defaults then spent some time understanding PTA and what each section did. I have disabled most of the settings and am concentrating on a few in Lighting and HDR & Post Processing. I'm now getting closer to what I want.

Yes, seen the effect of too much bloom. That is back at default. And yes, defaults are backed up.

I'm going to tweak slowly a bit at a time and observe the results. I've not plans at the moment to buy any sky packages but don't rule it out long term.

I've added MyTraffic5 today and I'm pleasantly surprised how well fps stands up. Things are looking good.

Point taken about Nvidia settings. Something else to look at in slower time.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The Output Dynamic Range is set to Limited and I'm wondering if Full might be better. I'm switching to it for now.

Hi Ray,

You might want to find out why this defaulted to "Limited" ... this value is set based on the nVidia's detection of the display/monitor brand/type.  It's sounding very much like your TV doesn't support high dynamic range ... I'm assuming you're using HDMI out on your GPU to HDMI in on the TV directly, no converters?

FYI, I don't use PTA.  Nothing against PTA, I'm just happy with native P3D options.

Cheers, Rob.

[virtualstuff 758]

28 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I've not plans at the moment to buy any sky packages but don't rule it out long term.

See here ;-)

http://navidh.se/misc_navids_skyset_2016_v3.html

http://navidh.se/misc_navids_skyset_2016_v2.html

http://navidh.se/misc_navids_skyset_2016.html

Simple tor try backup the texture folder and see if you like those easy to revert...

Cheers,

[Novation 534]

2 hours ago, awf said:

See here ;-)

Yes, these are superb sky textures. I would also recommend these http://1coder.ru/SKY/screens.html

I find REX textures even from Texture Direct to not work well with P3D's HDR especially the dawn/dusk textures. Both above work really well though.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

49 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Hi Ray,

You might want to find out why this defaulted to "Limited" ... this value is set based on the nVidia's detection of the display/monitor brand/type.  It's sounding very much like your TV doesn't support high dynamic range ... I'm assuming you're using HDMI out on your GPU to HDMI in on the TV directly, no converters?

FYI, I don't use PTA.  Nothing against PTA, I'm just happy with native P3D options.

Cheers, Rob.

Hi Rob,

Until a week ago I had a Nvidia 780 GTX and it only had DVI outputs. My new 1080 has DVI but also HDMI. Should I change to a HDMI cable? The TV is around 4 years old so I doubt it supports HDR. Am I only going to see the full benefits of HDR with a suitably equipped display? I'm guessing HDR requires a 10-bit display.

I bought the TV primarily for the extra screen size, not extra resolution as Concorde is best at 1920x1080. You will run out of VAS with higher resolutions.

Are there any HDR displays that aren't 4K?

Point taken about PTA. Each to their own. 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

36 minutes ago, awf said:

See here ;-)

http://navidh.se/misc_navids_skyset_2016_v3.html

http://navidh.se/misc_navids_skyset_2016_v2.html

http://navidh.se/misc_navids_skyset_2016.html

Simple tor try backup the texture folder and see if you like those easy to revert...

Cheers,

Thanks Andre. Worth a try.