Introducing Flight Sim World!

[Paraffin 2,197]

7 hours ago, barrel_owl said:

You will probably have most if not all your legacy addons available in a matter of weeks. The fact that legacy 32-bit addons will not be compatible out of the box, meaning from Day 1, does not mean they can not be made available for the new platform after some recompiling by the respective developers. Otherwise, how could Orbx FTX Global work on the new platform?

The catch here, is that people already own those older add-ons. What is the incentive to purchase them again?

It may be enough just to fly them in a 64-bit engine without OOMs. Then again, there will be more incentive to re-purchase an aircraft model if it's upgraded with pbr textures/reflections, integration with whatever GPS/FMS is included in the new sim, flight model tweaks to hit the numbers, and so on. That will take a while.

Carenado is going through this now with XP11. There is limited backwards compatibility with their existing XP10 fleet, but all their new XP11-compatible versions will be new purchases at full price. They'll be updating the flight models for compatibility with the new XP11 features, adding pbr textures and so on. That's a lot of work, and it will probably take a year or more to update Carenado's current XP10 fleet to XP11. 

It's still not clear how many people will want to pay full price again for a model they already bought for XP10, so Carenado will have to build enough incentives into their new models. I think add-on developers will be doing the same thing for DTG's FSW.

In other words, I wouldn't expect the add-ons to come right away, but they will eventually, if there is a market for it. 

[CaribbeanCLANK 134]

19 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

The catch here, is that people already own those older add-ons. What is the incentive to purchase them again?

It may be enough just to fly them in a 64-bit engine without OOMs. Then again, there will be more incentive to re-purchase an aircraft model if it's upgraded with pbr textures/reflections, integration with whatever GPS/FMS is included in the new sim, flight model tweaks to hit the numbers, and so on. That will take a while.

Carenado is going through this now with XP11. There is limited backwards compatibility with their existing XP10 fleet, but all their new XP11-compatible versions will be new purchases at full price. They'll be updating the flight models for compatibility with the new XP11 features, adding pbr textures and so on. That's a lot of work, and it will probably take a year or more to update Carenado's current XP10 fleet to XP11. 

It's still not clear how many people will want to pay full price again for a model they already bought for XP10, so Carenado will have to build enough incentives into their new models. I think add-on developers will be doing the same thing for DTG's FSW.

In other words, I wouldn't expect the add-ons to come right away, but they will eventually, if there is a market for it. 

And this is my biggest issue with moving to a new sim. Over the years I have invested over $2000 into my FSX and I very proud of my sim. All the great sceneries and aircraft and the long waiting for these products. I do want to see an improved sim but it's very hard to let go of something you have invested so much time and money into.

And will devs that you want add-ons from, support the new platform? And how many years will it take to see a fraction of such a large library of add-on make the move onto the new sim. 

So many questions that I may not like the answers to. 

[Pastaiolo 1,686]

5 hours ago, Griphos said:

Well, which is it, what you said above or what you say below?  You asked for things not yet developed, not for things already developed but which don't feel new anymore or aren't compatible with P3D.  (I'm not going to do your homework for you on the ones you are unaware of).  

My point is that you're griping just to gripe, and change your argument when you need to in order to remain negative.  And your argument is a bit ridiculous on its face.  

My larger point is that these threads about new products can be helpful to ask questions, clarify features, and, as in this case, hear useful information from developers.  But some will always use them as a venue for passing summary (and often silly) judgments in advance of any real experience or asking for quite silly features or approaches, such as complete backwards compatibility or complete novelty.  

All the "do it as I want or I won't buy it" posts just seem ridiculous to me.  Sure, ask for features you'd like to see.  Let the developer know what at least some part of the community would like to see.  But pronouncing your decision to buy or not based on speculation ahead of time....right, that's a good idea.  And one you're likely to stick to as well, I imagine....

Apologies for the late reply.

I am not a whining boy, i am not a troll, i just have a different view on it than yours. I have been simming since i was a kid with fs98 and i continued with it. More recently i switched from FS to XP10 first and XP11 later on.

As far as i know this is still a free forum, provided i follow the rules, and i am also free to have a negative view on something and state it clearly.

This whole "omg it's not released yet!!!" covers it up to a certain point. There are things that can be seen from screenshots and videos too, as well if your expectations (which might be too high) are going to be satisfied or not. Mine probably won't be, but as i said already 2 times, i am very happy to be proved wrong.

I don't think we need a better FSX, but something better than FSX (see what i did there?). I don't have an incentive of buying the same addons, which i already own, to have them in a 64bit environment with some more eye candies. And yes, i said eye candies. Because PBR and ambient occlusion are exactly that. Would they look nice? Sure. Would they make me buy a new simulator and invest money on it tho? I don't think so.

I am an open minded individual and not the whiny guy you are picturing me for. I have no problem to say i was wrong and give my money to them.

4 hours ago, ErichB said:

 

Come on.  You have been here long enough to know that default aircraft do not create appeal for a new sim. Platform functionality and third party content does.   Default, shiny aircraft are lures to be placed on advertisement banners and boxes for newcomers.  But any seasoned fligthsimmer would know that a default aircraft, especially of the more complex type - is a cheap trinket of deceit.  

 

I would rather have them invest the resource in platform preparation rather than 1 week wonder default aircraft - however amazing the new ones may be.

 

 

 

I agree in general, however i think the improved planes on XP11 gives an idea of what can be done in regard of default planes. I spent quite some hours with them, and sure, they are not comparable to full payware addons but they are not as "bad" as the FSX defaults are.
You can also take the planes on Aerofly FS2 as an example of that.

[Sticky 267]

I wish my FS98 addons were supported...it spent some money on those.

[jhelix70 22]

I wonder if this announcement will spur Lockheed to give us more information on prepar3d version 4?

Or are they not going to worry about the simming world and focus on training?

[kiwikat 506]

As someone who recently hauled FSX out behind the shed and put it out of its misery and switched to XP11, I'm hoping this will be an opportunity to enjoy my old addons going forward. I'm aware that most, if not all will not be directly compatible, but I would expect the major developers to release updated versions of their best sellers.

It has yet to be seen which platform is THE single way forward. Perhaps there will no longer be a singular solution as there had been for decades. My wallet weeps. 

[Paraffin 2,197]

17 minutes ago, france89 said:

I agree in general, however i think the improved planes on XP11 gives an idea of what can be done in regard of default planes. I spent quite some hours with them, and sure, they are not comparable to full payware addons but they are not as "bad" as the FSX defaults are.
You can also take the planes on Aerofly FS2 as an example of that.

Because this is Avsim, we probably underestimate how many people are happy flying default aircraft, or just taking a more casual approach in general.

Laminar published some stats last January showing that 38% of all flights in XP10 were with the default aircraft. That's a lot, although it doesn't mean people were only flying those aircraft. Another sobering statistic was that a mouse was being used as the primary flight control by 31% of users. 

This kind of market segment may be enough to support DTG FSW in the early stages, while it grows into something larger and deeper.

[Pastaiolo 1,686]

12 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

Because this is Avsim, we probably underestimate how many people are happy flying default aircraft, or just taking a more casual approach in general.

Laminar published some stats last January showing that 38% of all flights in XP10 were with the default aircraft. That's a lot, although it doesn't mean people were only flying those aircraft. Another sobering statistic was that a mouse was being used as the primary flight control by 31% of users. 

This kind of market segment may be enough to support DTG FSW in the early stages, while it grows into something larger and deeper.

True that, but i also suspect most have no clue about XP11 or Aerofly FS 2 planes as of yet, and instead are thinking that they might be like the FSX vanilla ones.

I saw another post from you in which you were talking about that i think, and i agree, it is a bit surprising but also interesting to know those :)

[WotanUK 289]

19 minutes ago, jhelix70 said:

I wonder if this announcement will spur Lockheed to give us more information on prepar3d version 4?

Or are they not going to worry about the simming world and focus on training?

No chance, i doubt LM see DTG as a threat they are interested in entirely different markets.  LM have allowed simmers to use the product but we are not the focus, i have always believed they use us as a large group of knowledgeable paying beta testers!

As a P3Dv3 user i will be happy to move over on the basis that add ons move (particulary PMDG and A2A) i really aren't looking forward to buying them again!  

[Guest]

6 hours ago, GHarrall said:

The myth regarding 'blade' being any better than lookup tables was debunked years ago. Talented flight model developers like the guys at Realair, PMDG etc have shown quite clearly that as long as its done correctly, the FS method works just fine.

As far as I understand it (not an flight sim dev), lookup tables are as good as the data you feed them, i.e. with excellent data you get excellent results. With blade element theory you good better results even with poor data, but it's not a substitute for real-world data if you want to replicate real-world performance. Is that somewhat right? Because that's what I meant with "advanced flight model": If you don't have real-world data, the sim does a decent job of approximating it via blade-element-theory. But again, that's my layman understanding of things.

Feel free to teach me or just point me to a source on the topic if you don't have time to elaborate!

[barrel_owl 304]

1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

The catch here, is that people already own those older add-ons. What is the incentive to purchase them again?

It may be enough just to fly them in a 64-bit engine without OOMs. Then again, there will be more incentive to re-purchase an aircraft model if it's upgraded with pbr textures/reflections, integration with whatever GPS/FMS is included in the new sim, flight model tweaks to hit the numbers, and so on. That will take a while.

Carenado is going through this now with XP11. There is limited backwards compatibility with their existing XP10 fleet, but all their new XP11-compatible versions will be new purchases at full price. They'll be updating the flight models for compatibility with the new XP11 features, adding pbr textures and so on. That's a lot of work, and it will probably take a year or more to update Carenado's current XP10 fleet to XP11. 

It's still not clear how many people will want to pay full price again for a model they already bought for XP10, so Carenado will have to build enough incentives into their new models. I think add-on developers will be doing the same thing for DTG's FSW.

In other words, I wouldn't expect the add-ons to come right away, but they will eventually, if there is a market for it. 

Well, I am only speaking for myself. And, of course, I am only trying to do an educated guess, if not a pure speculation, as I do not know exactly what FSW will bring up to the market and how developers will react to this move. Nobody knows.

I for sure will not pay again for addons that I already have. Period. I see no point in doing this, having made a considerable investment in FSX/FSX-SE along the years and being mostly still happy with what I see with 32-bit. I keep watching at FSW and P3Dv4 more as upgrades from the respective current version than as new simulators. FSW will bring 64-bit and probably several good improvements, yet this does not mean that it will be a brand new simulator. I don't think it will, I see it more as kinda FSX 2.0. As a result, I don't have big expectations and, honestly, I wonder why people insist in pointing to blurries, poppings, LOD problems and other flaws, which are well-known ESP issues that I strongly doubt will ever be erradicated completely, be it on 32 or 64-bit. 

The whole point here is: backwards compatibility. DTG made a conservative move by choosing an established platform. That's OK for me and this is why I supported DTG with FSX Steam and Flight School since the beginning. I am not asking for a new simulator with Unigine graphics, I am only asking to do what I am currently doing in a 64-bit environment. Other improvements are obviously welcome, but should this break the backwards compatibility up to the point that developers will have to rewrite substantial parts of the code and consequently charge for their upgrade, then this is a no-go for me. Example: am I supposed do pay more $ 150,00 for GTN750, GNS 530 and GNS 430 to Flight1 just to have the same thing on 64 bit? Obviously no.

I have big expectations from Aerofly FS2, which I bought in Early access on Day 2 or 3. After watching the LOWI presentation by Orbx last week I am more and more convinced that I made the right move and this is the platform of the future for civilian aircraft. I will keep supporting DTG as I did so far, I will even consider new native addons for this platform, but for no reason I will pay again for addons that I already have.  

[BEARlyThereCDN 46]

I couldn't agree more with barrel_owl insofar as what I see as basically paying for a upgrade of FSX. Call it what you want Dovetail, but that's what it is. Then, after doing that, paying again to enjoy the add ons I've already paid for assuming the publishers of the aforementioned decide it's even worth their while to bother so I can enjoy my flight sim  because backward compatibility  won't be possible.

Don't get me wrong. I can't thank DTG enough for making FSX playable again for me. I am one of those poor guys who hasn't been able to enjoy my boxed FSX Gold Acceleration since my old XP machine died and it wouldn't install on my Windows 7 machine. I took a chance when I saw the DTG release (c'mon, it was only $17 CDN so why not right?), and voila - it worked! And, all of my old payware worked too! To say I was overjoyed is a understatement. DTG will always have my gratitude for this.

Having gotten back in to my flight sim addiction, I looked at P3D. Didn't see anything that blew my mind, so, no. No money for LM. I watched XP-11 evolve and awaited it's release. Didn't see anything that blew my mind so, no. No money for them either.

And, I'm sorry to say DTG, but until you show me something that will blow my mind, no. No money for FSW (FSX 2.0) for you either. But thank you again for allowing me to enjoy a time tested flight sim. I'm happy with my FSX:SE.

[philphy42 15]

I've been waiting patiently for this so now I am fairly exited as to what is to come.  I support the release to early access strategy, get the bugs ironed out and develop with the communities help, I'm in !!!  I just hope that flight simmers can be positive about this announcement, at least wait until we see more detail or the release on Steam before jumping all over it - already seen some negativity which I shake my head over.

Anyhow congratulation Aimee, Chrys and the rest of DTG.  I hope your product is well received and the release goes smoothly, good luck !!! 

 

[cowpatz 243]

13 hours ago, DTG_Aimee said:

We have updated some of the nav database already to 2015 data (USA, Western Europe and South America). We are looking to sort the rest of the world at a later point.

Ok so the nav data will be locked in time as it is with FSX, just a little more current. It would certainly be desirable to have the nav aids and approaches updatable for use with the default GPS units..

[CaribbeanCLANK 134]

1 hour ago, BEARlyThereCDN said:

I couldn't agree more with barrel_owl insofar as what I see as basically paying for a upgrade of FSX. Call it what you want Dovetail, but that's what it is. Then, after doing that, paying again to enjoy the add ons I've already paid for assuming the publishers of the aforementioned decide it's even worth their while to bother so I can enjoy my flight sim  because backward compatibility  won't be possible.

Don't get me wrong. I can't thank DTG enough for making FSX playable again for me. I am one of those poor guys who hasn't been able to enjoy my boxed FSX Gold Acceleration since my old XP machine died and it wouldn't install on my Windows 7 machine. I took a chance when I saw the DTG release (c'mon, it was only $17 CDN so why not right?), and voila - it worked! And, all of my old payware worked too! To say I was overjoyed is a understatement. DTG will always have my gratitude for this.

Having gotten back in to my flight sim addiction, I looked at P3D. Didn't see anything that blew my mind, so, no. No money for LM. I watched XP-11 evolve and awaited it's release. Didn't see anything that blew my mind so, no. No money for them either.

And, I'm sorry to say DTG, but until you show me something that will blow my mind, no. No money for FSW (FSX 2.0) for you either. But thank you again for allowing me to enjoy a time tested flight sim. I'm happy with my FSX:SE.

I had a similar problem. My old FSX disc was damaged and when it was released on Steam I was so happy. I am so grateful to Dovetail for making the Steam Edition of FSX a reality. And when I saw the amount of add-ons that worked on FSX:SE I was overjoyed. 

Like you other Sims never excited me and my good old FSX looked amazing....precipitation effects, decent traffic, great weather and cloud representation, amazing aircraft and stunning scenery. And it took so much time and money to get my FSX to where it is today. 

And now I have to hit the reset button on all that? Dovetail may not full understand the flight sim community if this is what they are asking of us.