PMDG's Official Position on DTG's: FSW, pending P3D update, etc...

[bert.laverman 9]

22 hours ago, Anders Gron said:

Not to offend anyone, but I doubt that post/thread has anything signicant meaning. 

Until I see an official topic from PMDG on the matter in here (where the official forum is), I'll take the mentioned thread as what it is: Conjecture, rumors and guesswork...

Eh... this is a pinned thread, started by rsr himself. Doesn't that count as an "official topic from PMDG"?

[anden145 2,273]

23 hours ago, itaru said:

Just wait.

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/108547-pmdgs-next-project-coming-to-x-plane/

 

3 minutes ago, bert.laverman said:

Eh... this is a pinned thread, started by rsr himself. Doesn't that count as an "official topic from PMDG"?

Ehh... If you read the context of my post, you would find out, I was refering to the above post with a topic from X-Plane.org.

I was NOT talking about THIS topic.

[Smasher77th 13]

On Fri May 05 2017 at 1:11 PM, rsrandazzo said:

Oh and wait until you see what else we are working on. 

 

And my heart just skipped several beats😁😁😁. Let's hope it's what I'm thinking, -Dre*****er?

On a more serious note, thank you so much for the clarifications, and I think it's ridiculous for DTG to expect PMDG or any other premium developer to market their products through steam. 

[Smasher77th 13]

On Fri May 05 2017 at 3:55 PM, Sebjo89 said:

As much I respect what you are saying and I feel that we actually need more diplomatic and calmer topic and forum writing, I must add one last question about XP, if I can? 

If I start a topic over at XP forum and ask the following question, "Will there be more PMDG aircraft other than DC6 in XP?" the answer will directly be diverted and not straight forward answered. Maybe it's because you guys are actually are developing more PMDG aircrafts for XP or the opposite. I don't know. But what I trying to say is. This question will come more and more, and much more now that your topic is about P3D and the less then 2 days official release of DTG. We all are eager to know. Because we love your products. Simple as that. :) 

 

 

__________

Sebastian Björk - Stockholm, Sweden

 He said you could start a new thread. By that I think he means maybe in the general PMDG forums, and not necessarily in the XP forums. 

[Sebjo89 33]

1 hour ago, Smasher77th said:

 He said you could start a new thread. By that I think he means maybe in the general PMDG forums, and not necessarily in the XP forums. 

Yes, I could easily do that but it will not be "put the cards on the table" dialog, rather a cryptic answer. Hehe

There are topics on PMDG General already questioning this, but far as I know the PMGD staffs integrity is huge. Nothing negative about that. What we know is that it are just restless customers who love their products and who want their product specifically for Xplane. And that should not be anything negative either.

[CaptainGabe 81]

6 hours ago, Smasher77th said:

And my heart just skipped several beats😁😁😁. Let's hope it's what I'm thinking, -Dre*****er?

Dreamlifter?! 

[fsclips 16]

Hello everyone

I usually don't post in these kind of forums as I have become a behind-the-scenes guy.

However, I think I might be able to add something the this conversation here.

For many years I have been working as a 3D artist and animator for the PC gaming industry. I have been involved in many projects for different simulation platforms and worked with publishers many of you here in the forums will know very well. I have also worked with Dovetail games in the past.

When I joined a small group that wanted to create a DLC for Train Simulator we discussed at lengths which publisher we would want to contact. In the end we turned to the largest outlets online and sold it through them. After about a year or so we decided to give steam a go. As mentioned above, steam take roughly a 30% cut and Dovetail also take a cut sinc all Trainsim DLC has to be sold through their shop. Therefore, the income per sold unit is minimal. We had to adjust the product slightly and change a few things before it was approved. After a brief testing period it went on sale on steam...and I haven't looked back since.

Yes, the profit per sold unit is low, but boy oh boy steam really churns out copies left right and center. The sold units quickly overtook everything we had sold in the previous year on several other platforms combined and kept shooting up. 

I have since been involved in further products, many of which have made it onto steam and the result is always the same. If we believe the official figures there are currently 125 million active users on steam. All can be reached with a simple ad on their steam page.

Personally, I would have preferred if someone...anyone would have come up with a brand new, up to date platform for flightsim. Sort of a DCS for civil aviation (only on a grander scale), but somehow that hasn't happened.

I also believe that Dovetail are making a big mistake by requiring third party developers to go through them regardless. At least in trainsim the developer can produce products and sell them individually without ever going anywhere near steam or Dovetail. It sounds like this time around we would have to sell in tandem on steam and externally to be allowed to go to market in the first place. That is simply a very bad plan.

Having said that, I would urge all developers to take a very good look at steam. It has quickly become the go-to platform for PC games and reaches millions of customers with a few mouse clicks.

Personally, I hope that PMDG, FSLabs, Aerosoft, JustFlight and co all reach an agreement with Dovetail and that this new platform will flourish. If not, well then we just have to move on and FSW will go the same way as Flight.

Either way, interesting times.

Kind regards

 

Stefan Lorenz

 PS: Please understand that I cannot give more specific data on anything than what I have mentioned above. 

[anden145 2,273]

2 hours ago, CaptainGabe said:

Dreamlifter?! 

... or Dreamliner? (fingers crossed)

[vololiberista 205]

2 hours ago, fsclips said:

Hello everyone

I usually don't post in these kind of forums as I have become a behind-the-scenes guy.

However, I think I might be able to add something the this conversation here.

For many years I have been working as a 3D artist and animator for the PC gaming industry. I have been involved in many projects for different simulation platforms and worked with publishers many of you here in the forums will know very well. I have also worked with Dovetail games in the past.

When I joined a small group that wanted to create a DLC for Train Simulator we discussed at lengths which publisher we would want to contact. In the end we turned to the largest outlets online and sold it through them. After about a year or so we decided to give steam a go. As mentioned above, steam take roughly a 30% cut and Dovetail also take a cut sinc all Trainsim DLC has to be sold through their shop. Therefore, the income per sold unit is minimal. We had to adjust the product slightly and change a few things before it was approved. After a brief testing period it went on sale on steam...and I haven't looked back since.

Yes, the profit per sold unit is low, but boy oh boy steam really churns out copies left right and center. The sold units quickly overtook everything we had sold in the previous year on several other platforms combined and kept shooting up. 

I have since been involved in further products, many of which have made it onto steam and the result is always the same. If we believe the official figures there are currently 125 million active users on steam. All can be reached with a simple ad on their steam page.

Personally, I would have preferred if someone...anyone would have come up with a brand new, up to date platform for flightsim. Sort of a DCS for civil aviation (only on a grander scale), but somehow that hasn't happened.

I also believe that Dovetail are making a big mistake by requiring third party developers to go through them regardless. At least in trainsim the developer can produce products and sell them individually without ever going anywhere near steam or Dovetail. It sounds like this time around we would have to sell in tandem on steam and externally to be allowed to go to market in the first place. That is simply a very bad plan.

Having said that, I would urge all developers to take a very good look at steam. It has quickly become the go-to platform for PC games and reaches millions of customers with a few mouse clicks.

Personally, I hope that PMDG, FSLabs, Aerosoft, JustFlight and co all reach an agreement with Dovetail and that this new platform will flourish. If not, well then we just have to move on and FSW will go the same way as Flight.

Either way, interesting times.

Kind regards

 

Stefan Lorenz

 PS: Please understand that I cannot give more specific data on anything than what I have mentioned above. 

But PMDG is a bit different. They produce highly accurate models requiring some skill on the part of the user. The kind of person attracted to steam is a casual gamer not someone who wants the high level precision offered by PMDG. Their sales would not go up exponentially as you suggest for that reason. Without big players such as PMDG, FSW is an also ran. The money is on P3D as that is ultimately a professional sim. Therefore because of that it has always to be of good quality and accurate. If DTG want FSW to last as long as FS9 and FSX they have to play the same game as it were. I don't think they will as they are too tied in to the steam model (in it for a quick buck) which is fine for ordinary games but not for something that purports to be a prefessional sim aka P3D.

[Woc 21]

On 2017-5-5 at 7:11 PM, rsrandazzo said:

Oh and wait until you see what else we are working on. 

Definitely the most exciting part of the post 

[188AHC 2,138]

4 hours ago, vololiberista said:

But PMDG is a bit different. They produce highly accurate models requiring some skill on the part of the user. The kind of person attracted to steam is a casual gamer not someone who wants the high level precision offered by PMDG.

I will politely disagree with this comment. I will guarantee you that a portion ( perhaps a sizeable) portion of the Steam customer base are much more than "casual gamers". I for one use Steam and I consider myself a very experienced simmer. I certainly appreciate PMDG and their products as well as a huge number of contributors to the Avsim library and their freeware. I don't think I would paint the simming community with such a broad brush.

 

[GEKtheReaper 364]

9 hours ago, 188AHC said:

I will politely disagree with this comment. I will guarantee you that a portion ( perhaps a sizeable) portion of the Steam customer base are much more than "casual gamers". I for one use Steam and I consider myself a very experienced simmer. I certainly appreciate PMDG and their products as well as a huge number of contributors to the Avsim library and their freeware. I don't think I would paint the simming community with such a broad brush.

 

I agree with you on this!

I just ran through the process of doing a clean install of my FSX:SE. I think most of the users here know what I'm talking about: search your mails for credentials and links for your x addons, get the username and PW right for X stores, going to some forums to manualy find hotfixes that never made it through a SP or were packaged in a new install,.......

Why not have all your stuff bundled under 1 account if it's possible? I know STEAM is not all honney but DTG never hase forbidden 3rd party addon creators to use theyre own shop...

And I forgot the fact that in order to buy some of the stuff you have to give your Mail, your Credit Card (see ORBX) your... on all those X+1 stores.

[qzpmtfgh 4]

Flying on XP11 now, doesnt really matter if you guys release mroe planes for P3D/FSX really, cant go back anymore lol

[77west 139]

On 09/05/2017 at 10:43 AM, 188AHC said:

I will politely disagree with this comment. I will guarantee you that a portion ( perhaps a sizeable) portion of the Steam customer base are much more than "casual gamers". I for one use Steam and I consider myself a very experienced simmer. I certainly appreciate PMDG and their products as well as a huge number of contributors to the Avsim library and their freeware. I don't think I would paint the simming community with such a broad brush.

 

Agreed. I have steam as well. I even play a "game" called league of legends occasionally {daily} (not through steam). Does this make me a casual gamer? Only when I want to be a casual gamer! Other times, I am planning a long haul flight in PFPX down to the detail and flying online on VATSIM and following checklists and procedures... I am not sticking up for what DTG have done, but don't just write off all steam users as clueless teenagers.

 

I bet even RSR plays the odd "game" (when he has time).

[scandinavian13 5,192]

4 hours ago, 77west said:

I bet even RSR plays the odd "game" (when he has time).

Battlefield. He and Ryan still play a bunch. I haven't played it on PC much. I usually use my XBOX or PS4 depending on who's playing and just to get away from my computer for a while.