[20JUL17] Update thread for XPL users

[scandinavian13 5,192]

3 hours ago, Davidrebolton said:

Even if its not planned (nor never was planned) to update it for XP11, it should be done anyway out of good faith for loyal customers who have hundreds of pounds invested in other aircraft. If other dev's are able to/have updated their aircraft fleets to XP11 in a short space of time what's stopping you guys doing so? 

 

 

“It should be done anyway out of good faith for loyal customers who have hundreds of pounds invested in other aircraft.”

I’m at a complete loss of words here, so I’m going to just own the moment and let the silence of my lack of words just hang, so that people might just pause for a moment to consider what was just put across as an argument.

...for business decisions.

[Nighthwk 566]

1 hour ago, scandinavian13 said:

“It should be done anyway out of good faith for loyal customers who have hundreds of pounds invested in other aircraft.”

I’m at a complete loss of words here, so I’m going to just own the moment and let the silence of my lack of words just hang, so that people might just pause for a moment to consider what was just put across as an argument.

...for business decisions.

As are we all.

[GCBraun 2,392]

Come on, we are not talking about an FS2004 add-on that was not updated for P3Dv4. The DC-6 for X-Plane was released in mid 2016 and less than six months later it was already incompatible with the latest XP version.

I do not understand why PMDG considers it is a big deal for XPL users to expect an updated version. If you do not want to include PBR, fine, but an installer and some tweaks to make sure the plane is operating as expected. 

XP11 is a much "the future of flight simming" for XPL users as P3Dv4 is for FSX/ESP users.

Thiago Braun

[Olympic260 415]

I believe you are not reading what Rob and Kyle wrote

 

1) We never promised for XP11 compatibility

2) "We have no timeline for such decision making as yet, nor do we have a timeline for making the changes that are subject to that decision.  We will post more information here when we have it available."

 

I realy do not understand what is difficult to understand. When we have news will post it. Simply as that.

[Nighthwk 566]

31 minutes ago, tgcbraun said:

I do not understand why PMDG considers it is a big deal for XPL users to expect an updated version. If you do not want to include PBR, fine, but an installer and some tweaks to make sure the plane is operating as expected. 

 

Because they marketed, and sold, the product for XP10 with NO indication that it’d ever be uodated to XP11. You bought the XP10 version, it works in XP 10 as marketed, what’s the problem?

[Nighthwk 566]

32 minutes ago, tgcbraun said:

XP11 is a much "the future of flight simming" for XPL users as P3Dv4 is for FSX/ESP users.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean that PMDG will invest development time into it just because “it’s the future of fight simming” for XP users, that wasn’t why they updated their aircraft to V4 anyways, so your argument is flawed in that regard.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

1 hour ago, tgcbraun said:

I do not understand why PMDG considers it is a big deal for XPL users to expect an updated version.

Desire? No. I won't fault anyone for that.

Expect? Absolutely. None was ever promised, or even hinted at. There should be no expectation of anything in that case. When I upgraded from my XBOX 360 to my XBONE, a bunch of games got left in the past. I did not expect developers to update all of their stuff for XBONE. Some did. Some didn't. Those that didn't are not evil. The people making demands of them would be in the wrong, in my opinion.

Let me be clearer with you: development time costs money. Businesses operate based on business decisions about money. All of these "give us an XPL11 version because you owe it to us (or good faith, or we expect it, or because it's not a big deal)" arguments are all emotional arguments. Businesses do not continue to survive based purely on emotional decisions. Sorry. That's not how this works.

Should you wish to challenge that concept, you are welcome to learn development yourself and dive into the XPL marketplace. 

[Nighthwk 566]

As always, well said Kyle.

[GCBraun 2,392]

49 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Desire? No. I won't fault anyone for that.

Expect? Absolutely. None was ever promised, or even hinted at. There should be no expectation of anything in that case. When I upgraded from my XBOX 360 to my XBONE, a bunch of games got left in the past. I did not expect developers to update all of their stuff for XBONE. Some did. Some didn't. Those that didn't are not evil. The people making demands of them would be in the wrong, in my opinion.

Let me be clearer with you: development time costs money. Businesses operate based on business decisions about money. All of these "give us an XPL11 version because you owe it to us (or good faith, or we expect it, or because it's not a big deal)" arguments are all emotional arguments. Businesses do not continue to survive based purely on emotional decisions. Sorry. That's not how this works.

Should you wish to challenge that concept, you are welcome to learn development yourself and dive into the XPL marketplace. 

Companies operates in patterns. Otherwise its madness and no one knows what to expect. Is it not a pattern for PMDG to update products released for one platform if that same platform is updated shortly thereafter? We are talking about 6 months here.

You XBOX analogy is flawed because the 360 was a completely different platform (PowerPC), while the ONE is basically a x86PC. If you check the current situation, lots of developers are indeed updating their games to take advantage of the newly released ONE X. The difference between XP10 and 11 might not be small, but they still share the same 64bit core. 

And, of course development takes money. It is no secret that perhaps you did not sell as many DC-6s as you wanted, but that strategy has always been characterized as "the first step into a new platform". Well, now that XP11 is out since a year, its number of seems to be growing considerably, I am sure you would perhaps compensate the development costs with some extra sales for these new users.

You have every right to abandon the product months after release, but then please let everyone know, so topics like these will not appear anymore. 

As a last point (also directed for the others that argued against me): I never mentioned make it for free. I spend hundreds of Euros monthly on my hobbies and don`t have any problem compensating developers for their hard work.

Thiago Braun

 

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Gents,

I think this has become a tempest in a tea kettle over a phrase that Kyle and Chris have used that I don't necessarily agree with.

Whether or not we promised XPlane11 coverage is entirely and completely unimportant to me- and I have suggested to our team that they not state "but we never promised XPlane 11 compatibility" in reply here any longer.  Not because it isn't true- but because it simply isn't relevant.

What **is** relevant is that we have a well-and-clearly-defined decision making process that we will go through, and that business process will inform as to whether nor not we update the DC-6 to XPlane 11 compatibility.

There is no decision yet in this regard, and given our task focus in other areas at the moment we do not yet have a timeline for making such a decision.  Demanding that I restate this position 200 times won't change the fact that we really haven't given it much thought at this point, nor will we until we are ready to retask currently employed development assets.

There are a couple of folks in this thread who have tried to impart hidden intention that "PMDG killed off the DC-6 for XPlane" by warping the discussion.  Please disregard those folks and their input to the conversation.  If there is any doubt about my ability to speak clearly, please see my rather statements in reply to requests that we restart the MD-11 product development cycle over the past five years.  That should alleviate any interim concerns about the clarity of my position on this matter.

 

 

[Davidrebolton 42]

6 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

 

[Nighthwk 566]

8 minutes ago, Davidrebolton said:

So basically you don't value people like me who have bought near enough all your products?!
 

They obviously do, but, as stated MANY times before, that does not give you the right to push them around demanding they do stuff. You have no more power over their future projects than I do, or even someone who’s never even heard of PMDG before. Buying their products doesn’t grant you a pass to demand stuff from them, now if you had bought them at full sticker, in-development price then MAYBE 

Also, I’ve bought all of their products as well, besides the DC-6 and the JS41, and not once have I used that argument against them to get them to take on another project and I suggest you don’t as well, as that never solicits a favorable response from them. Leave emotion out of your argument, be civil about it, be polite and that’ll paint you in a much more favorable light than what you’re painting yourself in now.

 

Hey Kyle, if I took out a loan and bought the 747-8 at full price or bought RSR a DC-6, could I choose your next project?

[Davidrebolton 42]

14 minutes ago, Milton Waddams said:

 

 

[Nighthwk 566]

8 minutes ago, Davidrebolton said:

Well if id made as much money as they have since the start, If I made PMDG, it would be:

1. Done out of good will for fans and valued customers who ask given the volume of requests
2. Reply to people in a respectful way instead of smart *** answers 

And anyway, I didn't use the word argument nor intend one for that matter. Just stating fact! 

End of discussion. 

But you don’t run PMDG, and running a business isn’t what you think it is. I’m sure RSR or Kyle will back me up on that bit. Kyle and Chris, or even RSR, weren’t being smart with you, just trying to put your argument to rest so you don’t keep asking about it. You don’t make money by doing stuff out of the good will of yourself, you make money by doing what’s best for the business. Would you rather them stay in business making Boeing’s or be out of business making the MD11 again? Volume of requests won’t translate into firm purchases, you know this, and the forums in general aren’t a good indication of that the community wants/will buy as the users who browse the forums make up a minority of PMDG’s customer base anyway. Your argument is purely opinion based, not fact based, and saying it’s aything but that is simply untrue.

[Davidrebolton 42]

5 minutes ago, Milton Waddams said:

But you don’t run PMDG, and running a business isn’t what you think it is. I’m sure RSR or Kyle will back me up on that bit. Kyle and Chris, or even RSR, weren’t being smart with you, just trying to put your argument to rest so you don’t keep asking about it. You don’t make money by doing stuff out of the good will of yourself, you make money by doing what’s best for the business. Would you rather them stay in business making Boeing’s or be out of business making the MD11 again? Volume of requests won’t translate into firm purchases, you know this, and the forums in general aren’t a good indication of that the community wants/will buy as the users who browse the forums make up a minority of PMDG’s customer base anyway. Your argument is purely opinion based, not fact based, and saying it’s aything but that is simply untrue.

pointless topic. next subject