Radar Contact Tweak question

[FS++ 708]

26 minutes ago, Dirk98 said:

This is to confirm that RC4 badly needs a new MCE build.

For the test purposes I've installed RC4 on my main machine and I'm having the same problem: FO (Clive recorded voice) doesn't read Radar Contact window (Confirm ATC Options). Where's TTS reads it OK.

Thanks.

 

This actually isn't an issue at all.

The reason I asked you to switch to a TTS voice, is to check whether MCE can see the text in ATC window.

Recorded voice packs cannot read unexpected text, therefore, you'd get "Available ATC options" and then silence which is normal.

The most important thing is to get MCE to see the text so it can make informed decisions. The co-pilot isn't expected to make any use of that text.

With radar contact, when you want to hand ATC over to FO, you just say "You handle ATC" or "Your radio".

Download and install FO Stuart and select "Stuart H" under Radar Contact co-pilot voice and you'll have the same FO.

Now that you checked it, go back to using recorded co-pilots, unless you have a preference for TTS voices.

There are 2 other co-pilots able to handle RC4 ATC. William and Lorna.

They have recorded their own RC4 based ATC speech.

Will post the link for download later on.

I can confirm, there was a glitch with previous build, with regards networked RC4. It wasn't seeing it as running at all.

A new package will be uploaded next Tuesday.

Meanwhile, should work OK when RC4 is installed on same machine as MCE, assuming you have MCE V2.7.0.6 latest installed

 

 

[Dirk98 354]

4 minutes ago, FS++ said:

This actually isn't an issue at all.

The reason I asked you to switch to a TTS voice, is to check whether MCE can see the text in ATC window.

Recorded voice packs cannot read unexpected text, therefore, you'd get "Available ATC options" and then silence which is normal.

The most important thing is to get MCE to see the text so it can make informed decisions. The co-pilot isn't expected to make any use of that text.

With radar contact, when you want to hand ATC over to FO, you just say "You handle ATC" or "Your radio".

Download and install FO Stuart and select "Stuart H" under Radar Contact co-pilot voice and you'll have the same FO.

Now that you checked it, go back to using recorded co-pilots, unless you have a preference for TTS voices.

There are 2 other co-pilots able to handle RC4 ATC. William and Lorna.

They have recorded their own RC4 based ATC speech.

Will post the link for download later on.

I can confirm, there was a glitch with previous build, with regards networked RC4. It wasn't seeing it as running at all.

A new package will be uploaded next Tuesday.

Meanwhile, should work OK when RC4 is installed on same machine as MCE, assuming you have MCE V2.7.0.6 latest installed

 

 

Oh, that's great! At least I can play with it till Tuesday.

Dirk.

[Dirk98 354]

1 hour ago, FS++ said:

Now that you checked it, go back to using recorded co-pilots, unless you have a preference for TTS voices.

Check what? Did you mean "Now that you've done it..."?

Do I need Play Pilot Wavs option ticked in RC4 then? I'm afraid I'll hear my communications with ATC twice each phrase.

Thanks,

Dirk

Edited May 13, 2017 by Dirk98

[Dirk98 354]

How to ask ATC to repeat properly (ex. clearance or instruction to taxi)?

Thanks.

PS: When I say: "Clearance Speedbird433 say again" I hear "Say again" then ATC starts reading clearance uninterruptedly?? And that "Say again" why am I hearing it? Pilot wavs are off in RC4.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Dirk98

[FS++ 708]

10 hours ago, Dirk98 said:

How to ask ATC to repeat properly (ex. clearance or instruction to taxi)?

Thanks.

PS: When I say: "Clearance Speedbird433 say again" I hear "Say again" then ATC starts reading clearance uninterruptedly?? And that "Say again" why am I hearing it? Pilot wavs are off in RC4.

That's a known issue with Radar Contact nagging, coming too fast at times. It is exacerbated by the fact, the ATC clearance is usually long and takes a while to output its audio. When you get into that hectic loop, best to cheat and move on, as you barely have 5 seconds to acknowledge everything which is impossible.

And yes, the "Clearance Speedbird433 say again" should work, except that being under pressure because of the constant nagging, you may have got upset and changed your tone so much that the speech engine couldn't handle it.

Here are the promised voice packs for RC4. Download, unzip and read instructions on how to replace a couple of RC4 stock voices, so you can have the same MCE and RC4 FO. Also, under "Pilot voice", select "My voice" which will play silent audio.

MCE voice packs for Radar Contact ATC

Currently, only FOs William, Stuart and Lorna can handle RC4 ATC. Stuart was already a voice actor in one of original RC4 recorded packs (Stuart Hyett).

 

[Dirk98 354]

39 minutes ago, FS++ said:

That's a known issue with Radar Contact nagging, coming too fast at times. It is exacerbated by the fact, the ATC clearance is usually long and takes a while to output its audio. When you get into that hectic loop, best to cheat and move on, as you barely have 5 seconds to acknowledge everything which is impossible.

And yes, the "Clearance Speedbird433 say again" should work, except that being under pressure because of the constant nagging, you may have got upset and changed your tone so much that the speech engine couldn't handle it.

True, I figured that out myself today, it's an RC4 issue, just press the confirmation key and move on.

I didn't clearly realise TTS voices could work as good with MCE/RC4. Thank you for the package.

Cheers,

Dirk.

[FS++ 708]

1 hour ago, Dirk98 said:

True, I figured that out myself today, it's an RC4 issue, just press the confirmation key and move on.

I didn't clearly realise TTS voices could work as good with MCE/RC4. Thank you for the package.

Cheers,

Dirk.

They are actually human recorded voices, not TTS.

With RC4, by simply replacing some voices, MCE lets radar contact handle FO comms.

With PF3, since we don't have replacement recordings, and thanks to the captions (ATC text) being proper Jargon and not text with all sorts of abbreviations (like RC4), we just have to capture the text and our voices (Human recorded or TTS) will handle the comms by reading the caption (after some processing).

 

[Dirk98 354]

50 minutes ago, FS++ said:

They are actually human recorded voices, not TTS.

Yes, I know that, they are human recorded. All I wanted to say was I thought TTS voices wouldn't work properly with MCE/RC4. I appreciate human recorded voices, of course, but TTS vs Human voice comparison is not that critical for me as long as they both actually work.

50 minutes ago, FS++ said:

With PF3, since we don't have replacement recordings, and thanks to the captions (ATC text) being proper Jargon and not text with all sorts of abbreviations (like RC4), we just have to capture the text and our voices (Human recorded or TTS) will handle the comms by reading the caption (after some processing).

 

Thank you for the insight into MCE internals. I hope MCE will also work with PF3 on network with the coming MCE update.

Dirk.

[FS++ 708]

On ‎14‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 3:14 PM, Dirk98 said:

Yes, I know that, they are human recorded. All I wanted to say was I thought TTS voices wouldn't work properly with MCE/RC4. I appreciate human recorded voices, of course, but TTS vs Human voice comparison is not that critical for me as long as they both actually work.

Thank you for the insight into MCE internals. I hope MCE will also work with PF3 on network with the coming MCE update.

Dirk.

Should work via network once you have installed this package.

MCE latest package link

 

[Dirk98 354]

On 16.05.2017 at 10:52 PM, FS++ said:

Should work via network once you have installed this package.

MCE latest package link

 

The latest package stil doesn't work on WideClient:

"Confirm ATC Options" - "Available ATC options" and that's it. <<RC4 not connected to simulator>>

Please list the required MCE and FSUIPC settings.

I hope you tested this build in a networked configuration and something is missing on my side.

Thanks,

Dirk.

[FS++ 708]

41 minutes ago, Dirk98 said:

The latest package stil doesn't work on WideClient:

"Confirm ATC Options" - "Available ATC options" and that's it. <<RC4 not connected to simulator>>

Please list the required MCE and FSUIPC settings.

I hope you tested this build in a networked configuration and something is missing on my side.

Thanks,

Dirk.

No, not tested in a network scenario, but variable that tells MCE RC4 is networked was clearly at fault. And now fixed.

The main difference between local run and networked, in local scenario, MCE has the ability to monitor RC4 UI and knows whether the <Start RC> button has been pressed or not. In a networked scenario, it will just assume RC4 is not only running, but also connected. And only needs the path the network installation folder to work out last call-sign and assigned hotkeys. Make sure "rc4.exe" is set to run as admin so that it can update its config file.

ATC options are captured within FSX. Assuming MCE runs on same machine as FSX, it will get them, the same way I gets them for PF3/PFE.

Recorded voices cannot speak the abbreviations and other unexpected RC4 window text. For the test, you need to temporarily switch to using a TTS voice.

Tick the Multiline option in FSUIPC.

 

[FS++ 708]

55 minutes ago, Dirk98 said:

The latest package stil doesn't work on WideClient:

"Confirm ATC Options" - "Available ATC options" and that's it. <<RC4 not connected to simulator>>

Please list the required MCE and FSUIPC settings.

I hope you tested this build in a networked configuration and something is missing on my side.

Thanks,

Dirk.

And untick the Single line option.

[Dirk98 354]

Ok, done as suggested and ATC Options work now.

1) Is it possible to play with some regular english voices instead of Dieter's? How to do that? Dieter's voice sounds very specific, so when I answer 'thanks' I get a standard english-speaking reply instead of Dieter's heavy accent.

2 hours ago, FS++ said:

Recorded voices cannot speak the abbreviations and other unexpected RC4 window text. For the test, you need to temporarily switch to using a TTS voice.

 2) Are there voices that fully support RC4? What are the most complete for the task?

 

3) Why don't you give an option to have an 'override' ATC PTT On/Off functionality? Meaning, that when voice recognition is off you can turn it back on along with ATC PTT by pressing and holding a single key?

My joystick is programmed to work as above but it gets a little convoluted with the complex key sendings, and not many joysticks can do what CH Manager can:

Throttle Hat Up and Hold   = key NumLock press + key NumLock release + key DEL press & hold // --> PTT1 On/Rec On, ATC PTT On
Throttle Hat Up Release    = key Del release + key NumLock press + key NumLock release // --> ATC PTT Off, PTT1 Off/Rec Off
Throttle Hat Dwn and Hold  = key NumLock press + key NumLock release // --> PTT2 On/Rec On,   FO/Services can hear me
Throttle Hat Dwn Release   = key NumLock press + key NumLock release // --> PTT2 Off/Rec Off, FO/Services can't hear me

Thanks for fixing MCE networked side to work with RC4. MCE is much easier to learn with RC4 than diving into PF3 right away. That will be the 'next level'.

Dirk.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Dirk98

[FS++ 708]

14 hours ago, Dirk98 said:

Ok, done as suggested and ATC Options work now.

1) Is it possible to play with some regular english voices instead of Dieter's? How to do that? Dieter's voice sounds very specific, so when I answer 'thanks' I get a standard english-speaking reply instead of Dieter's heavy accent.

 2) Are there voices that fully support RC4? What are the most complete for the task?

 

3) Why don't you give an option to have an 'override' ATC PTT On/Off functionality? Meaning, that when voice recognition is off you can turn it back on along with ATC PTT by pressing and holding a single key?

My joystick is programmed to work as above but it gets a little convoluted with the complex key sendings, and not many joysticks can do what CH Manager can:

Throttle Hat Up and Hold   = key NumLock press + key NumLock release + key DEL press & hold // --> PTT1 On/Rec On, ATC PTT On
Throttle Hat Up Release    = key Del release + key NumLock press + key NumLock release // --> ATC PTT Off, PTT1 Off/Rec Off
Throttle Hat Dwn and Hold  = key NumLock press + key NumLock release // --> PTT2 On/Rec On,   FO/Services can hear me
Throttle Hat Dwn Release   = key NumLock press + key NumLock release // --> PTT2 Off/Rec Off, FO/Services can't hear me

Thanks for fixing MCE networked side to work with RC4. MCE is much easier to learn with RC4 than diving into PF3 right away. That will be the 'next level'.

Dirk.

1) FO Dieter is just one of the 10 available MCE recorded human voices (with various accents to suit everyone). To reduce download size, the Demo comes with 3 voices only. You can download and install the remaining ones by visiting MCE downloads page

2) Radar Contact mainly outputs options, with lots of abbreviations. Although we capture the ATC text, it's mainly to help MCE make informed decisions, rather than play darts by sending key combinations and hoping to strike it lucky. There is no recorded voice that can handle that kind of text output, other than TTS, and it wouldn't be intelligible.

Assuming you downloaded the "MCE voice packs for Radar Contact" (link in earlier post), and after replacing a couple of voices in RC4 with MCE own voices, you can have the same MCE FO handle RC4 ATC. But in this case, Radar Contact will be handling the playback.

Currently only 3 MCE FOs have recorded voices for RC4. FO William (oz), Fo Stuart (UK), and FO Lorna (UK)

3) Let's not forget we have a Demo out there and it has to impress in a very short period.

The last thing you want is users scratching their heads and wondering why FO doesn't understand anything they're saying. For the same reason we won't add a PTT for talking to FO. In theory it's a good idea (especially in the days of single core CPUs). In practice, you have to explain to each user that the speech engine needs a few milliseconds to be woken up and users would have to be very wary of that fact, and always resist speaking immediately after pressing PTT.

Just look at how some users are struggling with MCE ATC feature because of that PTT.

You might yourself be willing to adapt to it. But most users would just bin the product. Therefore, sorry for not considering the option.

Important: There is another thing that may not be working right now with your networked setup. It's making sure that MCE can see the flight plan.

When you make requests such as "Centre, Speedbird 1007 requesting direct course to Benbo", Benbo being a waypoint part of the flight plan, one cannot expect the speech engine to successfully recognize the waypoint amid thousands of them (assuming we put them all in speech grammar, which of course we don't as it would unnecessarily bloat it).

MCE would typically update the ATC grammar dynamically with the names of waypoints and navaids to expect, based on last loaded flight plan read from "rcv3.dat".

 

 

 

[Dirk98 354]

2 hours ago, FS++ said:

1) FO Dieter is just one of the 10 available MCE recorded human voices (with various accents to suit everyone). To reduce download size, the Demo comes with 3 voices only. You can download and install the remaining ones by visiting MCE downloads page

1) How exactly can I switch between those instead of Dieter?

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2 hours ago, FS++ said:

Assuming you downloaded the "MCE voice packs for Radar Contact" (link in earlier post), and after replacing a couple of voices in RC4 with MCE own voices, you can have the same MCE FO handle RC4 ATC. But in this case, Radar Contact will be handling the playback.

2) How does it work? For example: on the ground I communicate with ATC myself and MCE recognizes my speech and sends keystrokes over to RC4. In RC4 options I have Play Pilot Wavs is Off. Before take off I switch ATC communications over to FO:

- Is he supposed to make after takoff communication with ATC on his own?

- What do you mean exactly by "Radar Contact will be handling the playback"? Please give an example for clarity.

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2 hours ago, FS++ said:

The last thing you want is users scratching their heads and wondering why FO doesn't understand anything they're saying. For the same reason we won't add a PTT for talking to FO

- XBOXONE/PS4 is the way to go for some new users no matter what options you can offer them. But MS, P3D, X-Plane chose to make their platforms available for complex add-ons that can perplex even experienced users. However I get your point, and if you are really concerned about those first time demo users, why don't you hide the option somewhere deep in mce.ini? Please think about your loyal base as well, I know that many of your users would salute this option. MCE picks up a lot of white noise in the room or from elsewhere, since recognition stays open all the time by design. Why not to give a hidden option to manage it in a more flexible and convenient way after you get more familiar with the product? Or will it require too much coding work on your side (which I would understand)? Anyway, not a biggie for me, I know how to get what I want with some work around and what you gave already (thanks again for that NUMLOCK <Shut up!> functionality)

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2 hours ago, FS++ said:

To reduce download size, the Demo comes with 3 voices only

- Is there a Full version download for your customers, or it just doesn't exist? And all I need is just the latest build and to download all the voices from http://www.multicrewxp.com/Downloads.html ? And the links to some downloads that you kindly posted earlier, do they exist somehwere else on a website in an organized order? 

Thanks,

Dirk.