FMC Programming Question

[simpilot22 0]

Greetings,I'm trying to wrap my head around programming the FMC from the end of a STAR to the threshold. I'm using the SADDE6 arrival into runway 25R of KLAX. The transition is AVE. From the arrival plate, it looks like the end of the STAR is the SADDE intersection and/or the Santa Monica VOR. I'm a little fuzzy on determining the final fix of the STAR.The question is, from the final fix of the STAR, am I to consult the arrival plate for 25R and input to the FMC all the arrival fixes and restrictions listed, starting at one of the listed initial approach fixes? And, is the IAF to be used determined by the location/proximity of the last fix of the STAR?Finally, if the IAF is determined by the final fix of the STAR, where does one find a chart to determine the appropriate IAF?Thanks!Chip B.@-@http://www.jdtllc.com/images/rcv4bannerbeta.jpg

[yellow5 0]

I like to go to www.airnav.com to get my approach plate. There is also standard arrival and standard departure plates. This is a great resource for all US airports. I have seen a thread here that lists websites that have plates for other airports around the world.The basic idea of a STAR is to get you to an IAF for the approach to the runway. I have my FMC programed for my departure from the airport to my route to the IAF, then the approach itself. It is like playing connect the dots. One fix to the next. Then if available I have a hold programed in after the approach to plan for the go around.Kevin

[ErnieAlston 33]

>The question is, from the final fix of the STAR, am I to>consult the arrival plate for 25R and input to the FMC all the>arrival fixes and restrictions listed, starting at one of the>listed initial approach fixes? And, is the IAF to be used>determined by the location/proximity of the last fix of the>STAR?You would receive radar vectors from ATC prior to reaching the final fix or clearance limit of the STAR.Often the final fix is listed merely for the case of lost comms. Under normal conditions you would recieve radar vectors from ATC off the STAR to the localizer or final approach course prior to reaching the final fix.Its actually pretty rare to fly the entire STAR route.For the SADDE6 you would depart SMO on R-068 and expect radar vectors (unless they were given prior to reaching SMO)See the text description of the Sadde6 chart for more details on this.>Finally, if the IAF is determined by the final fix of the>STAR, where does one find a chart to determine the appropriate>IAF?The IAF is the beginning of the Instrument Approach. Its not part of the STAR in most cases in the U.S. Because the STAR is not usually specific to one runway (or even one airport sometimes). In areas outside the U.S. (particularly Europe) it is fairly common to see the IAF as a fix/waypoint on a STAR. In Europe STAR's tend more often to be specific to a runway.Regards.Ernie.

[mgh 89]

The termination of the STAR is given on the second page. "...then from SMO R-068 to SMO 9 DME for Runways 24 and 25. From SMO 9 DME expect vector to final approach course to Los Angeles Intl Airport."I would expect there would be a separate Approach Procedure chart to ILS RWY 25R for use without radar control. However, I can only see a visual approach from SMO to 25R on the FAA site :(http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp

[simpilot22 0]

Thanks all!Chip B.@-@http://www.jdtllc.com/images/rcv4bannerbeta.jpg

[mgh 89]

Why did you post the same queston in Hangar Chat as well as here?

[Guest lamont]

MQH - 25R is rarely used for arrival. Standard is 25R and 24L for departures, 25L and 24R for arrivals. From observations heavies arriving from the North along Sadde6 are vectored to 25L since it's a longer runway. Generally ATC will vector a/c to 24R from Sadde6

[mgh 89]

LamontI'm not familiar with runway usage at KLAX and was responding to the original post which referred to 25R.Are there any Initial Approach Procedures from the STARs to the Instrument Approach charts? I ask because at the major UK airports there are Initial Approach Procedures for use when aircraft are not being sequenced by Surveillance Radar. If not, what procedures are adopted at KLAX when radar isn't available?

[Guest lamont]

>Lamont>>I'm not familiar with runway usage at KLAX and was responding>to the original post which referred to 25R.>>Are there any Initial Approach Procedures from the STARs to>the Instrument Approach charts? I ask because at the major>UK airports there are Initial Approach Procedures for use when>aircraft are not being sequenced by Surveillance Radar. If>not, what procedures are adopted at KLAX when radar isn't>available? >>Basically if radar for the airport is lost, which happened not to long ago, they close the airport. If it's a malfunction within the a/c, to be honest I'm not sure. The Sadde6 chart overlaps with the approach chart for 24R. Both showing SMO and a departure from SMO on the 068 radial. The IAF is DENAY which is 25.1 miles out at 8,000 or above. From there it's a straight in approach. What I'm not sure about is there is nothing on the charts that say what the lost communications procedures are. I can only guess with the density of traffic at LAX the a/c may have to go elsewhere.There are probably local airport procedures that are not documented in the charts for such an occurence. I'll check with a airline pilot friend who is familiar with LAX operations and post back.

[mgh 89]

Thanks.In the UK general lost communications procedures are set out in ENR 1.1.3. The airport specific procedures are in Section 2.22 - Flight Procedures in the airport's AIP. Generally the procedures involve returning to the appropriate holding point, holding for a while, then commencing descent for landing within 30 min. The procedures, of course, vary depending on when the communications failure occurs.