Hand flying in FS9

[Guest jboweruk]

I use the Cyborg FF stick from Saitek, coupled with FSForce which is somewhat better than default force feedback, but still I have trouble holding level, admittedly I've not tried in calm weather conditions, but I never used to hand fly anything longer than half hour at most, now however I'm using FSPax and my best earner is the MAAM Sim DC3, on which I can't even find an Autopilot, so hand-flying for 1.5 to 2 hours has kinda become the norm lately. Still a so-so to do when the only thing you can see out the window is grey, sheets of purest grey.Hand flying is hard, but you do gradually get used to it and can hold level a little easier as time goes on. I found even in a real plane a thermal soon enough deals a blow to perfect straight and level flight, somehow though you just didn't seem to be fighting the controls quite so much.

[Guest gasebah]

Since you obviuosly fly aircraft with good airfiles I guess it has not so much to do with the controls. I had a lot of problems regarding level flight in the beginning especially in more turbulent air.Here is what made it easier for me:Trimming and level flight:1. Control climb or descent with throttle, control airspeed with elevator trim. Not vice versa!2. Do not try to counteract every little movement of the needle. Do small changes with throttle and trim and wait what happens. Let the needle oscillate a little. If you are loosing airspeed during an unwanted climb the needle will finally com back. If the airspeed stays constant during the climb reduce throttle a bit et voila level flight. Airspeed and trim always correspond to a mutual descent or climb rate. Fly slow for initial training. At lower airspeeds it is a lot easier to perfectly trim.3. Know your numbers. It is a lot easier if you know what airspeed you can expect during level flight at a certain altitude with a certain manifold pressure. This prevents you from overreacting.4. Get a GF-LGT from Goflight. The trim wheel made it a lot easier for me.I always fly with ActiveSky weather now and I am also using the vertical air movement feature of ASV and never have a problem to maintain my altitude +- 200ft.For horizontal control the answer is easy. Get some decent rudder pedals. To control crosswinds and turbulence with the ailerons alone is a pain and almost impossible.BTW I am only a chair pilot. But this works perfectly, at least in the sim :-).Alex

[Guest b52]

I've tried flying an 737 manually all the way. I remember those days when i have FS2002... :-badteeth

[LAdamson 240]

>1. Control climb or descent with throttle, control airspeed>with elevator trim. Not vice versa!>Small throttle adjustments along with elevator trim, certainly helps.Of course the climb with throttle & pitch for airspeed, is another one of those arguments that will never go away! :D Example: You're flying formation with wings tucked within the wings of the lead aircraft. In reality, you're slightly below, just in case the lead's engine blows, and you don't want to run right through the lead airplane, as if it slammed on the brakes.Never the less, you have to maintain the exact formations airspeed with slight throttle adjustments, and then compensate altitude adjustments with elevator as secondary. There are just to many varibles in the pitch for speed & throttle for altitude "saying", to apply the principle to every case. No matter what forum this issue comes up on, you can expect pages and pages of replies and rebuttles. L.Adamson

[Christopher Low 5,352]

Control climb or descent with throttle.....that works for me ;-)Chris Low.

[Guest gasebah]

OK. Here comes the rebuttle:I was only saying "climb with throttle & pitch for airspeed" is the easier way. At least in the sim I find myself doing a lot more try and error when I do it the other way round or with a combined approach. I guess the reason is that you do not feel the control forces as there are no FF yokes.I did not want to open a philosophical discussion :-). And being a chair pilot only I guess I am not fit for it either :-).Alex

[LAdamson 240]

>OK. Here comes the rebuttle:>>I was only saying "climb with throttle & pitch for airspeed">is the easier way. At least in the sim I find myself doing a>lot more try and error when I do it the other way round or>with a combined approach. I guess the reason is that you do>not feel the control forces as there are no FF yokes.>I did not want to open a philosophical discussion :-). And>being a chair pilot only I guess I am not fit for it either>:-).And at least 50% will totally agree. Maybe more! :D And BTW, I often use small throttle adjustments to fine tune the trim.L.Adamson

[Guest bobsk8]

I also use the CH Yoke and Pedals. I spent a good bit of time adjusting the sensitivities of the controls in FS9 to mimic the real aircraft I have flown as much as possible. Once set, I never change the settings and can fly all my favorite aircraft with the same settings. I love hand flying the Level D 767, the Bill Lyons Grumman Goose, the Carenado C182 RG, The Aerosoft Beaver, and the Aeroworx Kingair among others. If it doesn't hand fly well, it goes into my hangar permanently.

[bkeske 0]

Here is a copy of a post I submitted in the Eaglesoft Form regarding similar issues by 'real world' pilot of the plane, describing some of the same 'frustrations'....>>>Hi XXX...interesting comments, as I have found the Cirrus to me much more realistic to this issue than most. So, I end up tweaking a couple settings in 'other' aircraft.cfg's to help this out.The couple setiings I usually 'play with' are within the 'flight tuning' area of the .cfg Here is the Cirrus:[flight_tuning]cruise_lift_scalar=1.000parasite_drag_scalar=1.000induced_drag_scalar=1.06elevator_effectiveness=1.000aileron_effectiveness=1.000rudder_effectiveness=1.000pitch_stability=1.000<<<<

[Guest gasebah]

>elevator_trim_effectiveness=0.75<<<<

[planenut 19]

Hi Malcolm,I feel your pain when it comes to hand flying. It is one of the biggest complaints I have with the sim. I use a CH yoke and pedals and have adjusted the controls every way I know. The thing I notice is that the altitude changes can be really abrupt. I guess because there is no seat of the pants feel like you have in a real plane. I find myself paying way too much attention to the altitude and rate of climb instruments so I too fly on autopilot more than I would like. Even though I'm not a pilot in real life, I did take lessons some years ago and except initially when starting out, I didn't have a problem holding altitude. I guess it's just a drawback of the sim and we have to live with it. I agree with other posters when they say get a yoke and pedals. Makes a world of difference.Jim

[bkeske 0]

Not sure why that would be the case. All this does really is make the trim settings change less with each 'click'.The total trim change can still be achieved, it just takes more 'clicks' to adjust.What I have found too often is when you 'click' the trim up or down, it does so with too big a 'jump'. Quit annoying when you have eveything fairly level, you 'hit' the trim once to 'clean it up' and it takes it way 'out of wack' again. It overadjusted. I think this is because we don't have a 'trim wheel' as most aircraft do, so small adjustments can me made easier...we have electronic 'notches' which are not as sensitive....again, some aircraft do not need as much adjustment, if any at all. Some need more. It just seems I have found some of my aircraft much easier to manage by changiung these two simple settings.One thing I don't do is change it to the point where other factors do not have enough impact anymore (such as wind), thus again, unrealistic. This is not meant to be a replacement of AP, just a more realistic experiance vs. constant trimming and throttle control which some aircraft exhibit.

[Manny 1,293]

One of the problems of the sim is.. we do not have a good Trim Hardware.Trim wheel is so basic for flying... We have the Yoke, we have the Pedals (Not very good ones I am afraid), and we have the throttles.But we do not have a Trim wheel that is physically connected to the Yoke.If anyone could build one and sell it for reasonable price, They would have a winner.

[bkeske 0]

Agreed. I have a CH Yoke, but find the 'trim' wheel is pretty much worthless. I have decided (as have others) not to touch it anymore, it simply gets things out of wack pretty quickly.

[Guest bobsk8]

>Agreed. I have a CH Yoke, but find the 'trim' wheel is pretty>much worthless. I have decided (as have others) not to touch>it anymore, it simply gets things out of wack pretty quickly.Per conversations that I have had with CH people years ago, the wheels on the CH yoke are not trim wheels, and were never meant to be trim wheels. The purpose of the wheel is to find an electrical and mechanical center position for your yoke, when setting up the yoke. Then you leave it alone and use a switch on the yoke to move the trim. If you try and use that wheel ( pot) in the yoke, you will never be able to smoothly control the trim.