BVI Mode and staying airborne

[Orinks 3]

Hello everyone,

 

My MCE demo has unfortunately ran it's course, and I'll probably buy it, but the fact that I got off the ground but couldn't stay airborne kinda makes me wonder what I did wrong.

I think I did the checklists right, however maybe I took off wrong? Since IYP does stuff automatically, sometimes too much, maybe I missed a step?

Am I supposed to tell MCE to takee off with max takeoff power? The last time I tried and got airborne, I told MCE to select climb power to see if that did anything, and i'm not sure if it helpped. I then told MCE to set airspeed to 360 or so, I don't think that helpped either.

 

 

Since IYP sets elevator trim automatically and MCE does not, how would I accurately set it for departure in the 737-800? I told MCE to "Set elevator trim for takeoff", and it set it to 5 percent.

Any help would be greatly appreciated for when I do eventually buy MCE.

[FS++ 707]

I was hoping a visually impaired pilot would chime in. I guess there aren't many.

Here is one suggestion...

You may not have noticed that, MCE has a built-in powerful feature called Voxscript.

It lets you create your own speech commands and get the co-pilot to perform anything you want using those custom sentences.

Unfortunately, the Voxscript interface isn't BVI friendly yet and you'll need to enlist the help of someone who can see it.

Get him to view this video

[media] 

 

Then ask him/her to help you setup your own speech commands and decide what the co-pilot should do.

Just keep in mind, your custom speech commands must be different from any built-in command by at least one character.

Once you're all setup, you can converse with FO on your terms.

For example on a BVI takeoff scenario, create a trigger sentence that will get him to do what you expect, instead of wondering what he was programmed to do.

[FS++ 707]

On ‎29‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 9:02 PM, Orinks said:

Hello everyone,

 

My MCE demo has unfortunately ran it's course, and I'll probably buy it, but the fact that I got off the ground but couldn't stay airborne kinda makes me wonder what I did wrong.

I think I did the checklists right, however maybe I took off wrong? Since IYP does stuff automatically, sometimes too much, maybe I missed a step?

Am I supposed to tell MCE to takee off with max takeoff power? The last time I tried and got airborne, I told MCE to select climb power to see if that did anything, and i'm not sure if it helpped. I then told MCE to set airspeed to 360 or so, I don't think that helpped either.

 

 

Since IYP sets elevator trim automatically and MCE does not, how would I accurately set it for departure in the 737-800? I told MCE to "Set elevator trim for takeoff", and it set it to 5 percent.

Any help would be greatly appreciated for when I do eventually buy MCE.

It was meant as a reply to you. Please read post above.

[Orinks 3]

On 6/1/2017 at 6:48 AM, FS++ said:

I was hoping a visually impaired pilot would chime in. I guess there aren't many.

Here is one suggestion...

You may not have noticed that, MCE has a built-in powerful feature called Voxscript.

It lets you create your own speech commands and get the co-pilot to perform anything you want using those custom sentences.

Unfortunately, the Voxscript interface isn't BVI friendly yet and you'll need to enlist the help of someone who can see it.

Get him to view this video

[media] 

 

Then ask him/her to help you setup your own speech commands and decide what the co-pilot should do.

Just keep in mind, your custom speech commands must be different from any built-in command by at least one character.

Once you're all setup, you can converse with FO on your terms.

For example on a BVI takeoff scenario, create a trigger sentence that will get him to do what you expect, instead of wondering what he was programmed to do.

Hi,

 

Thanks for the help. Unfortunately, while I can get sighted help to help me with scripting, should I need it, I'm not exactly sure what to script, as I think MCE can help me with what it already has.

 

So here's what happens when I took off in the demo. I told MCE to take off and it took off at max thrust down the runway. puled back the yoke to rotate, got to V2 and lifted off, to which I got a speech prompt saying "airborne".

 

It's what to do here I'm unsure of, BVI or otherwise. I don't have any controller connected, though I do have a 360 controller if I can set that up with the sim somehow.

I tried selecting climb power with select climb power, because well, I was climbing. Then, I said airspeed 360, just to try to get it to slow down from max power. Does altitude hold and airspeed have to be off? And then, when MCE activates autopilot I should turn them on again?

 

Again, these are things IYP did automatically, so what to activate and deactivate is new to me when learning how to use and adapt to MCE.

If I just leave it climbing without doing anything, I keep asking what the altitude is, and my FO reports that I've climbed to 2800 feet, and I ask him again and then he said we were at 2300 feet and descending, fast.

I'm guessing this is because I didn't set the flaps to zero, or up and trim, at the correct time?

 

Also, I'm glad to hear that MCE is getting PF3 support in the next update. That's my prefered ATC program, but will it be possible to use CP mode 3 on those long haulers?

 

Also, another thing: I have set my copilot sapi voice in the MCE interface, however this voice was not used when reading back ATC instructions when using the menu option, such as select 1. But, if I start using MCE seriously, I'd opt to use PF3 and so can and will set my copilot voice back to a human one.

Any help would be appreciated on what settings to set, either with MCE's help, or with the keyboard/controller if I can't do it all via MCE voice commands immediately after V2 and lift.

 

Thanks!

[FS++ 707]

5 hours ago, Orinks said:

Hi,

 

Thanks for the help. Unfortunately, while I can get sighted help to help me with scripting, should I need it, I'm not exactly sure what to script, as I think MCE can help me with what it already has.

 

So here's what happens when I took off in the demo. I told MCE to take off and it took off at max thrust down the runway. puled back the yoke to rotate, got to V2 and lifted off, to which I got a speech prompt saying "airborne".

 

It's what to do here I'm unsure of, BVI or otherwise. I don't have any controller connected, though I do have a 360 controller if I can set that up with the sim somehow.

I tried selecting climb power with select climb power, because well, I was climbing. Then, I said airspeed 360, just to try to get it to slow down from max power. Does altitude hold and airspeed have to be off? And then, when MCE activates autopilot I should turn them on again?

 

Again, these are things IYP did automatically, so what to activate and deactivate is new to me when learning how to use and adapt to MCE.

If I just leave it climbing without doing anything, I keep asking what the altitude is, and my FO reports that I've climbed to 2800 feet, and I ask him again and then he said we were at 2300 feet and descending, fast.

I'm guessing this is because I didn't set the flaps to zero, or up and trim, at the correct time?

 

Also, I'm glad to hear that MCE is getting PF3 support in the next update. That's my prefered ATC program, but will it be possible to use CP mode 3 on those long haulers?

 

Also, another thing: I have set my copilot sapi voice in the MCE interface, however this voice was not used when reading back ATC instructions when using the menu option, such as select 1. But, if I start using MCE seriously, I'd opt to use PF3 and so can and will set my copilot voice back to a human one.

Any help would be appreciated on what settings to set, either with MCE's help, or with the keyboard/controller if I can't do it all via MCE voice commands immediately after V2 and lift.

 

Thanks!

You're welcome.

OK, we'll be adding a few automated actions to keep you airborne and set you on default GPS flight plan track and initial altitude.

You can still use PF3 co-pilot as usual, or opt for using same MCE FO (human recorded voice or TTS).

See this thread: 

 

 

 

[Orinks 3]

7 hours ago, FS++ said:

You're welcome.

OK, we'll be adding a few automated actions to keep you airborne and set you on default GPS flight plan track and initial altitude.

You can still use PF3 co-pilot as usual, or opt for using same MCE FO (human recorded voice or TTS).

See this thread: 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for trying to improve the experience for us, really appreciate it.

I have a suggestion though about these automated actions. Isn't there a command to set the GPS on navigation and GPS respectively? Like set nav1 to GPS and set nav1 to navigation? The reason I ask is that we may not need that particular feature automated for us. With IYP, when we say fly heading 4 2 5 while on GPS, it switches nav1 to GPS and dials in that heading and then tells us when the aircraft is at said heading. I know PF3 likes to vector me a bit before telling me to resume on navigation.

Does MCE do that now, or do we have to first switch to navigation before setting headings for vectors, for example on approach?

On a side note, I have a bunch of flightsimming videos at http://youtube.com/orinks.

 

All of them are performed with IYP, but when I start using MCE I'll start recording my flights with it, but not before I learn how to land lol.

 

Thanks!

[charlie130 196]

43 minutes ago, Orinks said:

Hi,

 

Thanks for trying to improve the experience for us, really appreciate it.

I have a suggestion though about these automated actions. Isn't there a command to set the GPS on navigation and GPS respectively? Like set nav1 to GPS and set nav1 to navigation? The reason I ask is that we may not need that particular feature automated for us. With IYP, when we say fly heading 4 2 5 while on GPS, it switches nav1 to GPS and dials in that heading and then tells us when the aircraft is at said heading. I know PF3 likes to vector me a bit before telling me to resume on navigation.

Does MCE do that now, or do we have to first switch to navigation before setting headings for vectors, for example on approach?

On a side note, I have a bunch of flightsimming videos at http://youtube.com/orinks.

 

All of them are performed with IYP, but when I start using MCE I'll start recording my flights with it, but not before I learn how to land lol.

 

Thanks!

I couldn't help thinking that if your flying a 737 800 (or the Airbus) once you have rotated at V1, (climb attitude achieved), V2, (MCE Annunciates" V2 positive rate"), you say "gear up". Flap retraction schedules could be done on verbal speed confirmation from MCE.  At 400 feet you would engage "L Nav" and "V Nav". From that point on, provided you can/have programmed the FMC, then the route may be flown on auto pilot. SID's and STARS are FMC jobs these days anyway! I don't know how you would go about programming the FMC, but there must be a way?

If using ATC, then MCE has all the verbal commands to engage navigation modes using VOR track, command compass guidance and vertical guidance using "altitude intervene" in the 737.  As you may know, you can ask MCE to select any heading or altitude.

I can imagine that it's possible to fly an entire route with MCE and Vox Key (or Voice Attack).  After all, MCE is our first officer and even the Flight Engineer if your aircraft needs one!

For a fully sighted pilot, we can only imagine what it would be like to actually fly without sight! My imagination expires at the Final Approach Fix and my anxiety increases exponentially. However we fly into airports with visibility at such low levels in the Bus or 7's, that again, I could imagine using MCE/Vox Key/Voice Attack, to command the automatics to get on localiser and glide slope and then let auto land do it's thing! There are annunciation calls for  a localiser alive and glide slope alive, as you may know? 

When using vectors from ATC, your MCE first officer obeys your every steering command. However that final approach must be done on a localiser and glide slope. Without Auto Land, you would probably rely upon the height call outs from the aircraft radar altimeter, and the "retard retard" in the Bus! 

Flight Sims are all about suspending disbelief and permitting us to use our imagination. Thanks for the questions, it makes you think, doesn't it?

Best regards

David

[Orinks 3]

9 minutes ago, charlie130 said:

I couldn't help thinking that if your flying a 737 800 (or the Airbus) once you have rotated at V1, (climb attitude achieved), V2, (MCE Annunciates" V2 positive rate"), you say "gear up". Flap retraction schedules could be done on verbal speed confirmation from MCE.  At 400 feet you would engage "L Nav" and "V Nav". From that point on, provided you can/have programmed the FMC, then the route may be flown on auto pilot. SID's and STARS are FMC jobs these days anyway! I don't know how you would go about programming the FMC, but there must be a way?

If using ATC, then MCE has all the verbal commands to engage navigation modes using VOR track, command compass guidance and vertical guidance using "altitude intervene" in the 737.  As you may know, you can ask MCE to select any heading or altitude.

I can imagine that it's possible to fly an entire route with MCE and Vox Key (or Voice Attack).  After all, MCE is our first officer and even the Flight Engineer if your aircraft needs one!

For a fully sighted pilot, we can only imagine what it would be like to actually fly without sight! My imagination expires at the Final Approach Fix and my anxiety increases exponentially. However we fly into airports with visibility at such low levels in the Bus or 7's, that again, I could imagine using MCE/Vox Key/Voice Attack, to command the automatics to get on localiser and glide slope and then let auto land do it's thing! Even if using vectors from ATC, your MCE first officer obeys your every steering command. However that final approach must be done on a localiser and glide slope. Without Auto Land, you would probably rely upon the height call outs from the aircraft radar altimeter, and the "retard retard" in the Bus! 

Flight Sims are all about suspending disbelief and permitting us to use our imagination. Thanks for the questions, it makes you think, doesn't it?

Best regards

David

Indeed, it does. The developer of IYP, Robert Cezar, figured out all these things, but IYP doesn't support any of these third party aircraft's like the aerosoft Airbus, only one of the PMDGs that's old, etc.

I don't know the first thing about programming cids and stars or really how they work. I know I'd essentially take the waypoints that, say, SimBrief gives me and put them in in the order given to me, I hope. I see an FMC commands doc in the docks folder of MCE, would these commands allow me to program an FMC just by using those commands? I didn't understand what any of those commands even did, though I think the numbered commands change the page currently in focus on the FMC interface?

A nice change, at least by default in the BVI mode, would be that while autopilot is off, to read the flight instruments by default. When I hit V2 in one of my demo flights, I told MCE to put the gear up, and it responded saying that I couldn't do it because the aircraft was going too fast as per manufacturer specifications for the gear or something to that effect.

So I said airspeed 3 5 0 perhaps, didn't know what to set it to and I also didn't want to fall again, but then I checked the altitude and noticed that I indeed was falling.

 

Perhaps maybe it's a good idea to automate the gradual retracting of flaps, as I think that may be the reason for crashing after takeoff. I'm not sure though, because MCE didn't really give me any into other than "increasing pitch" twice, and then I tried doing what I said above.

 

Basically, I want to be able to fly defaults with MCE first, then I'll go on to try to do FMCs and such. That'd be my reason for getting MCE, I'd like to fly the Aerosofts and the PMDGs etc, like everyone else.

Also, I've heard David in his videos use the command "Prepare the aircraft". I notice that's a built-in command, but does that work with all aircraft? It didn't in the 737.

 

When I was referring to the PF3 co-pilot, I was wondering if I could have the PF3 co-pilot on mode 3, where it can basically fly the route from start to the glideslope, I think. IYP has an issue where headings won't change on that mode, so I'm curious whether MCE will interfear with that, should people want to use is for 14+ hour flights, for instance.

Another question: How does MCE BVI mode work in GA aircraft? My friend Zack said he had luck climbing in a Skyhawk, but I'm reading in the docks that none of the piloting commands such as steering, etc work in GA aircraft, and the copilot turns into an instructor to provide support while you manually fly.

That leave BVI users out of flying GAs with MCE, I guess. Since i don't fly GA that much, mostly just FSEconomy, I suppose I can deal with this, at least for as long as IYP's around.

But, for now, let's see about managing gear and flaps automatically and then when PF3 tells me to resume on navigation, what are the commands to do that?

Something else to think about is adding support for Pro ATC/X to MCE. I'll have to try that with MCE eventually, as it can manage flaps and gear with it's autopilot. It's autopilot descends to the glideslope even, but it's downside is that PF3 has a lot of voice sets.

 

Few. What a mouthfull, but HTH at least a little.

 

[Tyler K 0]

I'm so used to IYP, but would absolutely love to use MCE because it seems to be getting more updates than IYP is these days, plus it supports more aircraft and can integrate with GSX, which I would love to try. After all, GSX would allow me to do more realistic refueling, perhaps using block fuel values from SimBrief. If this were doable, then I would be able to perhaps have better luck on those flights where my winds aloft are headwinds, which seem to lead to a lot of problems in IYP.

[zkline 1]

Hi All,

 

I haven't flown with MCE or otherwise for some time, but I feel like I can at least chime in here on a few things.

 

We're mostly restricted to flying the default FSX 737 at the moment. That's largely because the FMC is inaccessible. MCE does support programming it via voice commands, but the lack of audio feedback makes this almost impossible to do interactively. That is, we can ask to press various buttons on the FMC, but can't figure out what is on the display without sight.

 

I don't know what a good solution for this issue might be, and imagine it depends a lot on specific 3rd-party aircraft. Still, one thing at a time.

 

MCE does have the ability to do almost anything in the cockpit, including flying via GPS routes. I appreciate that all the voice commands are written up in RTF or PDF files, though sometimes figuring out where to find a specific command  isn't obvious.

 

I don't have much else to add to this thread at the moment, but will watch and contribute as I can. Thanks for working with us, FS++.

[charlie130 196]

23 hours ago, Orinks said:

Also, I've heard David in his videos use the command "Prepare the aircraft". I notice that's a built-in command, but does that work with all aircraft? It didn't in the 737.

Prepare Aircraft is just a "flow" or "procedure". Each aircraft has a different set of instructions, depending upon it's state when you enter the flight deck. Some are in turn around, with either GPU running, or APU running. A cold ship needs even more preparation, but I don't think that's  conducive to our purpose of actually flying? Its a time consuming procedure, that's done with Captain and First Officer running the flow and following up with checklist. The flows vary from company to company. For our purposes, all you do is get hold of the FCOM or flight manual, for your aircraft, then transfer the flow into MCE. Place the relevant checklist into the MCE check list folder and then run them!  For that to happen, you need access to FCOMs. PMDG are ideal, probably the expensive Airbus sim has them as well. 

You asked about an automated flap retraction? Well in a "normal" unrestricted power take off, those flaps go up pretty quickly. Going from (737) ten, five, to clean, basically very smartly. In fact, to avoid the Vfe, your jet is accelerating so quickly your going to retract to "up" and shouldn't risk a stall. Unless your in a noise abatement zone, or ATC speed restriction, then you should be cleaned up fairly quickly without any risk of stalling the aircraft due to premature flap retraction. Your either under FMC or N1 commanded speed control, which is automatic anyway, so a stall condition shouldn't occur. You are setting the initial speed to 250, or the first ATC speed restriction, which is usually a clean configuration anyway.

Everything in aviation is procedure based! As such, computers can fly the aircraft, provided it's running the correct flow, at the correct time and whoever has inputted the flow got it right?

Seems like to achieve success in flight Sims, if you can follow procedures, then your there. With MCE the fun and satisfaction is  inputting the correct flow and running it at the correct time. But the world of sound has to replace the world of vision! I can barely imagine flying IMC with only sound references! 

Regards

David

 

[Orinks 3]

On 6/6/2017 at 6:30 AM, FS++ said:

You're welcome.

OK, we'll be adding a few automated actions to keep you airborne and set you on default GPS flight plan track and initial altitude.

You can still use PF3 co-pilot as usual, or opt for using same MCE FO (human recorded voice or TTS).

See this thread: 

 

 

 

Hi FS++,

 

Is the PF3 and auto-takeoff features you said you would implement for BVI mode in yet? I know PF3 support is, but I didn't know whether the BVI stuff for takeoff was in yet. If it is, I guess now's the time to buy MCE and put it to the test.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[FS++ 707]

13 hours ago, Orinks said:

Hi FS++,

 

Is the PF3 and auto-takeoff features you said you would implement for BVI mode in yet? I know PF3 support is, but I didn't know whether the BVI stuff for takeoff was in yet. If it is, I guess now's the time to buy MCE and put it to the test.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Nothing was done on the BVI specific path.

FO can perform takeoff for you.

There is a feature you may not be aware of.

You could say "read instruments aloud" at any time when flying manually and you'll hear a voice over telling you what the aircraft is doing.

turning left, turning right, accelerating, decelerating, climbing, descending, etc...

If you've had enough of that, just say "stop reading instruments aloud".

What is planned is adding a few automated actions following automatic takeoff.

Again, once you understand what VoxScript feature is about, you'll find it's better you actually decide what the Fo does, rather than try to memorize a few actions we may be putting in.

Think of VoxScript as a "speech simulator". 

You write in plain English, the successive commands you want the FO to perform automatically when you speak a custom trigger sentence.

And yes, there are commands

"Navigation reference set to GPS"

"Nav reference to radio navigation"

 

[Orinks 3]

7 hours ago, FS++ said:

Nothing was done on the BVI specific path.

FO can perform takeoff for you.

There is a feature you may not be aware of.

You could say "read instruments aloud" at any time when flying manually and you'll hear a voice over telling you what the aircraft is doing.

turning left, turning right, accelerating, decelerating, climbing, descending, etc...

If you've had enough of that, just say "stop reading instruments aloud".

What is planned is adding a few automated actions following automatic takeoff.

Again, once you understand what VoxScript feature is about, you'll find it's better you actually decide what the Fo does, rather than try to memorize a few actions we may be putting in.

Think of VoxScript as a "speech simulator". 

You write in plain English, the successive commands you want the FO to perform automatically when you speak a custom trigger sentence.

And yes, there are commands

"Navigation reference set to GPS"

"Nav reference to radio navigation"

 

Gerald,

 

Is it possible for me to script a distance command?

IYP has a feature where I can say:

Get direction to airport

and it'll tell me the direction of the airport I'm currently flying to. Ex: Direction to Kilo Papa Hotel Alpha: 12 O'clock. 125 miles. Airport Altitude: 83 FT

 

I think info like this is essential for manually landing, as it's helpful to know whether ATC is vectoring me correctly on base, etc.

 

There's also get flight time to destination, but that's more for convenience. I'm curious if these things can be scripted--I doubt it, because VoxScript only presses key commands. I'm not sure how IYP is getting information like that, probably FSUIPC but not sure.

Also, is it possible to add BVI support to the FMC commands, given what Zkline said about the FMC's inaccessibility and lack of audio feedback when those FMC commands are executed?

I'll be buying soon.

Thanks.

[Orinks 3]

Hi everyone,

 

I took it upon myself to look up the FSX keyboard controls in an effort to figure out how I'm going to land with MCE, even if it's making one or more VoxScripts.

How does one increase/decrease the nose of the aircraft, especially in times of descent? For example, I was just cleared for a final and have to now descend to the ILS, capture the Glideslope and localizer. This is, of course, assuming that PF3 set nav1 already to the given ILS frequency, but I'm not sure if it sets the nav1 course.

In the controls I was looking at, there's increase/decrease selection or do either of those slightly. With MCE's read instruments allowed feature, I could use that to see what my virticle speed is, etc. I'm just not sure how to increase/decrease it with the keyboard to manually descend and, so I can make a VoxScript voice commands for it somehow.

Thanks all, thinking about buying MCE in a few hours.