P3Dv4...Why You May Want to Wait

[Boomer 1,619]

1 minute ago, ahuimanu said:

For me, the gut-wrenching enjoyment killer that was VAS exhaustion (OOM-ville) is ALL THAT MATTERS at this moment. Nothing else matters.

Same.  Many an extensively planned flight was ruined by OOM near the outer marker.

[GHarrall 494]

I have just finished installing some ftx regions and as far as I am concerned v4 rocks. The improved performance, aa, texture exp cfg mod, the list goes on.

awesome. Can't wait to ditch v3.4 fully. 

In the meantime I will get my fix from both 

[birdguy 3,943]

I am reading this with interest, not because I plan to by version4 (already dumped version3) but because I like to read everybody's thoughts when they think they have found, or not found, the Holy Grail.

I am not here to criticize anybody's choice of games he plays or simulators he chooses to fly or drive or sail.  We all choose what's best for us.  I have found what's best for me, but that is probably not best for you because I am 83 years old and have forgotten a lot more than I remember.

My name is Noel and some of you know me.  I haven't been around much because a year or so ago I went retro.

I had so much trouble with my computer and P3Dv3 and all the Orbx scenery that was available I spent more time e-mailing friends asking for support and going online for support than I did actually flying.

So I started over again by going backwards.  I currently have four simulators running.

FSX with only Orbx's North American FAT sceneries and Return to Misty Moorings bush sceneries.  I have only a single aircraft I fly, Lionheart's Quest Kodiak.  The west coast of North America from San Diego to Anchorage is plenty of scenery for me to fly around.  Whenever Orbx has a new airport for the area I buy it and install it.

I have two FS2004 installations.  One for California Classics retro scenery circa 40 years ago with lots of propliners and old airports.  For this one I fly MAAM's DC-3

My other FS2004 installation is set up for MAIW military aviation covering North America.  I just fly the FA/18 and PMDG C-12 (B1900D) on that one.

And I have that ancient MSTS Train Simulator with about 65 routes.

The framerates are great.  Almost never have downtime for maintenance.  No OOMs.  And I am no longer shopping for the best motherboard or video card or looking for the best scenery settings or overclocking techniques.

I'm not taking away anything from progress or searching for something better.  I just got too old and tired for that.

For me flight and train simulation is just a pleasant pastime and something to do now that I have been retired for 20 years and everyday is Saturday.   I'm not looking to return to the days when I flew real airplanes.  I'm not using my flight simulation to hone my pilots skills or for addition training to get my PPL.  I just want to have a bit of uncomplicated fun.  There are people like me around you know.

Twenty years from now when P3Dv15 comes out a new thread like this one will appear.  People will be asking me two questions.  Why are you stuck with that ancient technology and how did you live so long?

Sorry for hijacking your thread.  I'll go away now.

Noel 

 

[ahuimanu 50]

Hi Noel,

64-bit memory addressing is not the answer to all problems, but is an answer to a very insidious problem - resource exhaustion in the face of detail overload.  Basically, I am the sort who wants to plan a  long-haul flight, with some reasonable enhancements to the default environment, execute that flight, and successfully conclude that flight.  For example: A 777-200 flight from KDFW to EHAM.  It was always a dice roll whether I could complete that in P3D.  It was possible in my latter days of FSX with Steve's DX10 fixer.

I am certain that other bugbears will be around, but resource exhaustion, having 10+ hours of your time wasted when you can't complete a long-haul sector like I describe, had TURNED ME OFF from what was/is an important pasttime for me.

I feel that the new 64-bit platforms will likely eliminate your need to keep an install per purpose (your multiple FS2004s and FSXs) soon enough.

There is a lot of magic, non-standard tricks, and plain old slop, out there in our 3rd party market.  As such, the more we add on, the worse it gets.  However, the Add-on system specified by Lockheed Martin holds reasonable promise in isolating these add-ons from each other.  I predict that, in the rush to market, many will ignore this.  To wit, as much as I feel that the textures and landclass from Orbx really enhance the experience, I can see that Orbx will continue to use their invasive (almost parasitic) approach to altering the base sim.  On the other hand, I give great kudos to FSDreamTeam for leading by example with their transition to P3D v4.

64-bit will undoubtedly change much of what we know and expect about fight simming, but I don't pretend it will be a cure all nor will it exonerate us from being savvy in how we configure our simulator and machine.  However, with those good/sane choices, I will no longer have my own fun ruined by resource exhaustion.  OOM on short final after a long across the pond is SOOOOO INFURIATING that I am surprised I haven't thrown the computer out the window at times.

And that, I suppose, is part of your point - the frustration.  Of course, P3D v4 64-bit will be your "ancient" technology 20 years hence.

[Noel 4,486]

I think you've hit the nail on the head:  in very large part it will be those doing very long intercontinental flights who will benefit the most from V4.  For the cost, time to incrementally install, optimize, and await all my favorite add ons for compatibility I can hardly see a worthwhile advantage to moving to V4, and that is because my longest flights are around 2200nm's, and despite using the highest end scenery, airports, aircraft addons I have yet to have an OOM since V3.0, and haven't even changed to V3.4.  What I find unfortunate about V4 is the real lack of anything fundamentally new, for example not improving the default ATC which to me seems could be modded w/o a complete redo to address some of its all to well known niggles in the 10 y/o design.  Or another potentially fabulous change would have been to further optimize realtime modulation of detail with a user-configurable interface letting the user prioritize what they'd be ok w/ sacrificing in order to maintain fluid video.   For example it might look at GPU utilization and dial back GPU-related values when GPU utilization exceeds a certain threshold, for example dialing back terrain/cloud shadow distance in realtime so the user doesn't need to stop and adjust.   I'm assuming some of this is already built in to all of their optimizations so far, but as I say a user configurable interface for this could be fantastic.

IMHO a few things like this, things that desktop simmers might value greatly, were not addressed.  Yes, the 64-bit conversion was ultimately very useful long term and were I looking to jump into simming or contemplating abandoning FSX, then it's a very compelling upgrade.  When I think about my first reaction which is to consider getting a major GPU upgrade to Titan Xp, and what this will truly translate to in real improvements, it's absolutely not worth the cost to rebuild the box I already use...however that box is now starting its 5th year (previously said 6th but found my parts invoice the other day) so I am going to be doing an upgrade likely towards the end of the year.

As was framed at the beginning of these comments, if you're suffering from OOMs killing a long flight, well then absolutely this is a critically important upgrade.  Or if you don't already own P3D, sure.  For most folks though, it's much ado about what, a little more sharpness out to the horizon, which quickly becomes non sequitur when flying an approach thru clouds or marine layer?   Maybe better performance, as always if you have the hardware to produce it.   From what I surmise here smooth, stutter-free flight is nowhere near built in to V4--that you still have to figure out yourself as in V3.x.

[Noel 4,486]

Hehe, sorry Jeff, this was another Noel responding...

[fluffyflops 1,846]

On 2017-6-3 at 9:11 AM, birdguy said:

I am reading this with interest, not because I plan to by version4 (already dumped version3) but because I like to read everybody's thoughts when they think they have found, or not found, the Holy Grail.

I am not here to criticize anybody's choice of games he plays or simulators he chooses to fly or drive or sail.  We all choose what's best for us.  I have found what's best for me, but that is probably not best for you because I am 83 years old and have forgotten a lot more than I remember.

My name is Noel and some of you know me.  I haven't been around much because a year or so ago I went retro.

I had so much trouble with my computer and P3Dv3 and all the Orbx scenery that was available I spent more time e-mailing friends asking for support and going online for support than I did actually flying.

So I started over again by going backwards.  I currently have four simulators running.

FSX with only Orbx's North American FAT sceneries and Return to Misty Moorings bush sceneries.  I have only a single aircraft I fly, Lionheart's Quest Kodiak.  The west coast of North America from San Diego to Anchorage is plenty of scenery for me to fly around.  Whenever Orbx has a new airport for the area I buy it and install it.

I have two FS2004 installations.  One for California Classics retro scenery circa 40 years ago with lots of propliners and old airports.  For this one I fly MAAM's DC-3

My other FS2004 installation is set up for MAIW military aviation covering North America.  I just fly the FA/18 and PMDG C-12 (B1900D) on that one.

And I have that ancient MSTS Train Simulator with about 65 routes.

The framerates are great.  Almost never have downtime for maintenance.  No OOMs.  And I am no longer shopping for the best motherboard or video card or looking for the best scenery settings or overclocking techniques.

I'm not taking away anything from progress or searching for something better.  I just got too old and tired for that.

For me flight and train simulation is just a pleasant pastime and something to do now that I have been retired for 20 years and everyday is Saturday.   I'm not looking to return to the days when I flew real airplanes.  I'm not using my flight simulation to hone my pilots skills or for addition training to get my PPL.  I just want to have a bit of uncomplicated fun.  There are people like me around you know.

Twenty years from now when P3Dv15 comes out a new thread like this one will appear.  People will be asking me two questions.  Why are you stuck with that ancient technology and how did you live so long?

Sorry for hijacking your thread.  I'll go away now.

Noel 

 

At 83 my hat is off to you sir.  If ever you want a hand with anything you pm me.  I'll be only too happy to help.  My expertise is flightplanning and dispatch.

Have fun with the sim.Noel 

[fluffyflops 1,846]

On 2017-6-2 at 5:58 PM, Boomer said:

Same.  Many an extensively planned flight was ruined by OOM near the outer marker.

We all have had that mate.  An 8 hour flight then fantastic atc on arrival on vatsim only to hear the oom dings as you lower the gear.  It's painfull as hell.  Hopefully this v4 can eliminate that