How to manually add scenery/addons into P3D v4 the right way

[MarkW 1,492]

37 minutes ago, Cargostorm said:

I do not understand what the advantage of using add-on.xml is over using scenery.cfg and simobjects.cfg files as in V3?

If you have to import > 100 sceneries into add-on.xml this is going to be a mess....

You can do a complete reinstall of P3D and it will all just work out of the box with no reinstalling of your scenery or aircraft.  Given how many updated P3D typically do over time this will become extremely useful.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

1 hour ago, Cargostorm said:

I do not understand what the advantage of using add-on.xml is over using scenery.cfg and simobjects.cfg files as in V3?

If you have to import > 100 sceneries into add-on.xml this is going to be a mess....

At this point in time it is a matter of taste. The recommendation to use XML files is aimed at developers, as part of the SDK spec. 

If you would create the XML files manually, that would indeed be a lot of work compared to using the scenery library dialog. But if you have a tool to do it for you, there is no difference - other than the XML files will survive a full uninstall and cleanup of the simulator. Theoretically, even the next major release would not require a reinstall of your addons (unless something else gets changed in the sim).

But the biggest advantage for me is, that I can add everything with those XML files, not just scenery and aircraft. Textures, Shaders, EXEs, DLLs, Sound, Gauges, Weather, Scaleforms - every type of content you can imagine. And for each of these categories it is done exactly the same way. No more searching for and hacking of internal config files. "exe.xml, dll.xml, SimObject paths, cfg files" - are all a thing of the past.

Best regards

[keithb77 308]

Quote

biggest advantage for me is, that I can add everything with those XML files

I noticed that the A2A example posted elsewhere includes a scripts folder - the V4 SDK doesn't list 'scripts' so I don't know if that's wishful thinking by A2A or you can extend the supported folders...

Cheers
Keith

[Anxu00 176]

9 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

The scenery and aircraft developers of old used many tricks to make their products work, and so far I haven't been too lucky in finding products that work without causing a massive amount of content errors (which lead to stutters in my sim). Some addons rely on the folder structure of the base simulator, and these cannot work with the XML based method.

Thanks for the info.  Are you saying that most of your add-ons scenery moved from V3 to V4 using this method cause stutters and content errors?  May be you could share them with us so we can avoid them.  Also, the add-on.xml method is a good way to cleanly remove an add-on if it turns out to be a bad one.  As for layer, one can look at the V3 scenery.cfg and find out the current layer number and then use it the add-on.xml.  "Some addons rely on the folder structure of the base simulator, and these cannot work with the XML based method" do you have example of these?  Most likely the publisher/developer of these add-ons can be excluded wholesale, while we wait for them to get on board if at all.  I know ORBX stuffs still reside inside the P3D folder and make change to internal structure such as the World/Global folder inside the base Scenery folder.

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

Dear lord, this seems like it's going to get confusing...some sceneries in addon.xml...others in scenery.cfg.  I hope something like SimStarter can help us manage it.  Huge opportunity here.

[Anxu00 176]

1 minute ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

Dear lord, this seems like it's going to get confusing...some sceneries in addon.xml...others in scenery.cfg.  I hope something like SimStarter can help us manage it.  Huge opportunity here.

I would say stick to the add-on.xml method.  Yes, there is an upfront investment cost, but  if you need to reinstall P3D or rebuild your PC, you will save days of re-installing.

[Jiri Kocman 20]

8 minutes ago, Anxu00 said:

"Some addons rely on the folder structure of the base simulator, and these cannot work with the XML based method" do you have example of these?

Which addons you mean? I do not know about addon which cant be moved to different location,

 

Currently with add-on packages we can change default scenery, textures, shaders without need to replace original files, so addons like ORBX FTX Base (v4 versions still do same file replacement :( ) , REX or URP can add files from external place at same way as replacing original files. So when you remove whole sim folder, they can work when  sim will be reinstalled.

 

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

7 minutes ago, Anxu00 said:

Thanks for the info.  Are you saying that most of your add-ons scenery moved from V3 to V4 using this method cause stutters and content errors?  May be you could share them with us so we can avoid them.  Also, the add-on.xml method is a good way to cleanly remove an add-on if it turns out to be a bad one.  As for layer, one can look at the V3 scenery.cfg and find out the current layer number and then use it the add-on.xml.  "Some addons rely on the folder structure of the base simulator, and these cannot work with the XML based method" do you have example of these?  Most likely the publisher/developer of these add-ons can be excluded wholesale, while we wait for them to get on board if at all.  I know ORBX stuffs still reside inside the P3D folder and make change to internal structure such as the World/Global folder inside the base Scenery folder.

Hi,

these content errors are thrown by payware and freeware addons alike. I think it would be out of place to list them here. You can check for yourself by turning on the content error log in the simulator, which will create a text file with all issues in "Documents/Prepar3D V4 Files".

Addons that rely on folder structure are often aircraft. That is an old problem actually, if you were using different "hangars" for your addons you may have run into the same issues. For example, a programmatic gauge may be looking for its artwork in a specific folder - which it may not be able to find when the DLL and the artwork reside outside of the simulator.

The deal with ORBX is, that they don't merely "add" - many of their products overwrite what is there - they massively alter the simulator itself. Not sure if this can work with an external install, but that is for them to find out. All of it is lost when you uninstall and reinstall the sim.

I have promised myself that this time I will stay away from legacy content - even if I have to cry a little bit over the loss...

Best regards

[Anxu00 176]

Just now, Jiri Kocman said:

Which addons you mean? I do not know about addon which cant be moved to different location

I was asking another poster : Oliver Binder (Lorby_SI)

[Anxu00 176]

2 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

these content errors are thrown by payware and freeware addons alike. I think it would be out of place to list them here. You can check for yourself by turning on the content error log in the simulator, which will create a text file with all issues in "Documents/Prepar3D V4 Files".

I see.  Thx  So the add-ons may log content errors and still work "fine" as far as you can tell, or if the errors are in the log, it also means that it does not work?

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

2 minutes ago, Jiri Kocman said:

Which addons you mean? I do not know about addon which cant be moved to different location,

One of my own actually. In a programmatic gauge I was relying on the path to my artwork being relative to the folder where the DLL resides. This cannot work when the gauge is anywhere else. I had to alter the way how I look for them. If any other developer did it the same way, then the gauges will not show properly.

And then there are those where the programmatic part is looking for the manufacturers own folder for INI files or SID/STAR information. Those are in trouble too if you just move the content.

But that is not that big a problem, as the gauges of legacy aircraft won't work anyway...

Best regards

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

2 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

I have promised myself that this time I will stay away from legacy content - even if I have to cry a little bit over the loss...

How are you defining "legacy"? For me, I'm considering my options with what will move to P3D4 when I get it.

• Only sceneries with a P3D4 installer?
• Only install older sceneries once they are verified (how?) and have a clear method of installation?

My mind is in flux about it.  This thread is a good resource for sorting it out but I think we'll need some sort of tracking too.  As I said, some app could really help.

[Anxu00 176]

8 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

The deal with ORBX is, that they don't merely "add" - many of their products overwrite what is there - they massively alter the simulator itself. Not sure if this can work with an external install, but that is for them to find out. All of it is lost when you uninstall and reinstall the sim.

I believe ORBX Global and the regions do this, but not any airport sceneries.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

4 minutes ago, Anxu00 said:

I see.  Thx  So the add-ons may log content errors and still work "fine" as far as you can tell, or if the errors are in the log, it also means that it does not work?

"Not" is a big word. A scenery or aircraft may look and work OK, even with the content errors. The simulator will deal with those, so you don't notice it - and the developer didn't notice either, or else they wouldn't be there. But - every single one of these errors will make the sim pause and think about it. If there aren't too many, the user will probably not notice. But don't be surprised either if your simulator starts to (micro) stutter at some point.

That payware aircraft that I used had a massive amount of content errors in the XML gauges. And the fluidity of the simulator was gone, it constantly hesitated althought the FPS were still high (60+).

Best regards

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

7 minutes ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

How are you defining "legacy"? For me, I'm considering my options with what will move to P3D4 when I get it.

• Only sceneries with a P3D4 installer?
• Only install older sceneries once they are verified (how?) and have a clear method of installation?

My mind is in flux about it.  This thread is a good resource for sorting it out but I think we'll need some sort of tracking too.  As I said, some app could really help.

I have made an app that handles scenery (and scenery order) and all other addons through the proper XML files. It is just not ready for prime time - I am currently implementing a full backup and restore option for the config files.

Legacy: everything that has not been built with the V4 SDK. Just making a new installer and hoping for the best is not what I would consider an update.

At the very least I expect every content developer to run it through the content error log until it is clean. This is a massive help that LM provided us with.

Best regards