Two questions for "real airline pilots"

[curt1 79]

I don't know if there are many real airline pilots reviewing this board, but I have a couple questions if you don't mind responding.First of all, just recently I've acquired a couple of the top notch add-ons for FS9. The LDS 767 and the feelThere 737, both are exceptional programs. There is so much depth to these planes that the feeling of being in a real flight deck is realized. As an actual airline pilot, maybe you've had experience with the better modeled add-ons for FS9, perhaps for pleasure, practice or plain curiosity. This leads me to my two questions. 1) How much of the "total experience" does a flight simmer receive as compared to the real thing? The forces of flight can't be felt of course, and many procedures are abbreviated for simming. Would the total experience on a comparison level be as high as 50%? Higher or lower?2) Is the "satisfaction level" comparable? By this I mean if the satisfaction level for completing an actual no problem flight is 100%, a flight simming experience would be what percentage of the real thing?I'm trying to keep flight simulation in it's proper perspective, and any input you have is appreciated. Thanks!

[Murmur 3,941]

>2) Is the "satisfaction level" comparable? By this I mean if>the satisfaction level for completing an actual no problem>flight is 100%, a flight simming experience would be what>percentage of the real thing?I don't know about an actual no problem flight, but I bet the "satisfaction level" of successfully landing in MSFS after simulating a triple hydraulic failure, is about 0,0000000001% of the real thing:http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-ua232.shtml:(Marco

[David B 53]

Hi Curt, interesting questions.I fly 737's for a living. With the advent of sophistication, of some add-ons being released,it is not too far off, from procedurely doing a "Normal" flight in FS. Given the limitations, of course, some of which you mentioned.When I purchased the PMDG 737-700, after they did the upgrade to achieve a "Southwest" style panel. I was able to follow our company procedures no problem from point A-B, very close to real world.:-) I don't have the feelthere product, as it's Efis style, we use analog on our 3-500 series. I would guess though, given their track record, the feelthere package would probably give pretty good realsim for that type of aircraft.I agree when you try and throw in failures, etc...from a simulation standpoint it's probbably fairly accurate, however, from a realife standpoint, a lot of failures simulated in FS and the aircraft, wouldn't have the same feedback. You would see things visually, maybe to a certain extent, have some control response feed back...but again it would still be a visual stimulus.Example: Manual reversion on the 737. Loss of System A and B hydraulics. On the real 737, the control forces are going to be very difficult to use...no hydraulicly boosted controls. Not too mention all the systems you have lost in the plane. Your down to the stby hyd. system. Some of our pliots I have spoken too, that have experienced this failure, said it was very draining trying to fly the plane. They ALL said the simulator "manual reversion" experience vs the real "manual reversion" was somewhat different. Procedurely the same, flying of the plane not quite the same.I'm sure the devs could produce an accurate "visual" representation of loss of A&B hydraulics, but it won't be the same as in real world.I have to agree the devs have done a superb job of giving a visual stimulus feedback though.Conversly, pilot's have told me a V1 engine failure in the plane is nothing compared to the simulator. The simulator is much more difficult.So, you can see there are always some trade-offs between simulated and real life.If you want a "normal" procedurely correct realworld type flight, you can't go wrong with the products you mentioned. I certainly enjoy them when I fly FS.Most importantly,.........Have Fun, regardless how you fly.:-)Best,David

[michal 44]

I am not real-life airline pilot but I can quote one.If you pick up PC Pilot magazine (Nov/Dec 2005 issue) you can read article written by Jon Bunting who is a real world 747-400 captain (with VA) and who describes on two pages his experience and opinions flying the PMDG's 747-400.Can't retype the whole article but can give you some insights.One of the first things I noticed in the PMDG sim was the accuracy of its flight model, which really does capture the handling of the Jumbo very well. Some large FS jet add-ons are very hard to fly well as there often seems to be too much inertia and too little response from the flight controls, but a visual circuit in the PMDG is a real pleasure..... it also enters a slip during a crosswind landing and holds the ailerons into wind during the landing roll - incredible!...I'd be happy to recommend PMDG's aircraft to any real-world pilot rated for or training on the 747-400, to PS1 users or indeed any other simmer interested in big jets and their operation. Quite simply, if you want to know what it really feels like to sit at the controls of a 744, this aircraft is currently as close as it's possible to get.Michael J.

[Guest jerrycwo4]

I've been flying the LDS-767 and I'm not sure about the CORRECT procedure dealing with the THROTTLE when on approach. Taking off with "N1" and immeadatly swithching to the "auto throttle", the trottle on my joy stick never comes into play and I'm not sure this is correct. I usually land with the "auto braking switch" at position 2-3. So the question is, when if ever do the throttles on the aircraft come into play.? If you turn off the auto throttles just before touchdown, should the throttle on my joystick be completely off or partly on? I'm 99% sure you do NOT land with the auto throttle on.Would you please add a few comments that have to do with landing and the relationship to the auto throttles and the aircraft's throttles. Thanks for your comments. jerrycwo4

[Guest jerrycwo4]

bump

[Tabs 2,790]

Jerry,Depends of if you're doing an autoland or not - if so, then yeah the AT stays on at landing, if not you'd disconnect before touchdown (they do this in the real thing with a soft-disconnect switch on the throttles)

[Guest andyman]

Hi david, not trying to be some "spamming advertiser" here but feelThere is planning to offer Old engine gauges and ADI and HSI gauges. The product is excellent, it handles very well and is a must buy. It feels a bit more "sluggish" than the NG. Is this normal?

[David B 53]

>I've been flying the LDS-767 and I'm not sure about the>CORRECT procedure dealing with the THROTTLE when on approach.>Taking off with "N1" and immeadatly swithching to the "auto>throttle", the trottle on my joy stick never comes into play>and I'm not sure this is correct. I usually land with the>"auto braking switch" at position 2-3. So the question is,>when if ever do the throttles on the aircraft come into play.?>If you turn off the auto throttles just before touchdown,>should the throttle on my joystick be completely off or partly>on? I'm 99% sure you do NOT land with the auto throttle>on.Would you please add a few comments that have to do with>landing and the relationship to the auto throttles and the>aircraft's throttles. Thanks for your comments. jerrycwo4Hi Jerry. I would like to answer your question re auto-throttles. However, other than in FS, I have never used them. We dont have A/T's hooked up on our 737's.Hopefully, someone will chime in soon to give you better info.Best,David

[David B 53]

>Hi david, not trying to be some "spamming advertiser" here>but feelThere is planning to offer Old engine gauges and ADI>and HSI gauges. The product is excellent, it handles very well>and is a must buy. It feels a bit more "sluggish" than the NG.>Is this normal?Hi Andy, that's great news. I had asked about analog before. Felltherre initially said they weren't planning on an analog version. Glad they changed their mind's.Thank You for the info.Best,David