rsrandazzo

[14JUN17] How not to mess up a perfectly good Prepar3D v4 installation...

129 posts in this topic

24 minutes ago, Mir // Flightbeam said:

Since this thread has started we've been getting regular emails from potential customers stating that if our products are not native P3D V4 SDK they will not purchase. So that original comment is not far from the truth unfortunately. It's amazing how fast misinformation can sprd. 

In my professional opinion the original statement that started this entire discussion should either be clarified or retracted. In its current form it's not very accurate.

Thanks alot for the statement, Mir. I'm glad you come forward in here as well, to state your opinion. As one of the most talented and respected developers in the community, it certainly has some weight when you state this. I have a feeling that's why many people (myself including) take/took the words of @rsrandazzo so seriously and literate. 

I'll be following this, since this is turning into a real 'Clash of the Titans'. :cool:

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12 minutes ago, Mir // Flightbeam said:

 

 

Since this thread has started we've been getting regular emails from potential customers stating that if our products are not native P3D V4 SDK they will not purchase. So that original comment is not far from the truth unfortunately. It's amazing how fast misinformation can spread. 

In my professional opinion the original statement that started this entire discussion should either be clarified or retracted. In its current form it's not very accurate.

Mir,

I'll clarify.  :biggrin:

Quoting from Lockheed Martin's guidance to developers:

"The Prepar3D v4 SDK has been in development throughout the beta phase. Along the way, several changes have been made that will require content to be re-exported in order to take advantage of some of the newer features as well as prevent crashes. For this reason, we recommend that all content being developed for Prepar3D v4 use the SDK available at the time of the release.
 
With that understanding, we recommend that anyone developing content keep up-to-date with the latest SDK."

So our guidance to customers remains that they should use their heads...  Unfortunately in an era when the vast majority of simmers have gotten used to products being portable across multiple platforms- it isn't always apparent to them that this may no longer be the case- and they need to be armed with some understanding so that they don't set themselves up for failure.

The unfortunate reality (and i know you see this too, Mir!) is that some developers simply update their installer and don't both to check and be certain that their product actually works without creating problems for our mutual customers.  (I wish I had the moxy to mention a few names directly- but that violates my prime-directive not to talk down another developer just because they conduct themselves differently than we do...)

Obviously YOU wouldn't be on that list, Mir. 

The other behavior that we see is users simply assuming "if it worked in v3 it works in v4!"  This is categorically dumb, as well.  When we pull data on our support traffic rate, w can see uptick dramatically the day after the estonian migration tool was made compatible with P3D v4.  The obvious correlation there is that folks are driving a ton of stuff into P3D v4 that was never intended to be there- and it shouldn't be.

Yet somehow they wind up at our tech support screaming and demanding that we fix their issues... 

So the overriding guidance to our customers remains the same:  Use your heads and stick to reputable developers who make a CLEAR effort to ensure their products work.  (I'll pick one at random... uhm... like FlightBeam...:laugh:)

 

 

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As stated by one gentleman before me, I have also installed Bunch of Aerosoft, FlyTama, all FSDT and all Flightbeam airports, Justsim LIML... PMDG aircraft. AI traffic by Alpha India and models of FAIB, FSP, TFS, AIG on Windows 10 Creators Update. And I couldn't be happier how all performs. So yeah, the world didn't end.

 

Suffice to say, people don't think with their heads, they blindly follow what is said or written. Geez people, it's a software not a living breathing thing. You messed it up somehow, do a system restore. And think think think.

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4 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

@rsrandazzo

I'll be following this, since this is turning into a real 'Clash of the Titans'. :cool:

Andres,

I'm going to slap you around gently for this comment.  This is PRECISELY the sort of garbage that isn't needed here.

Mir and I share a tremendous amount of mutual respect for each other's products, companies and development teams.  With that, we are allowed to disagree or see the same thing from slightly different points of view without it being a "clash of titans."

This popularized theory that two individuals cannot discuss differing points of view without fighting is entirely and completely ignorant- and denigrates me and Mir and the reputations we have worked very hard to build within the community.

If you want to see a fight- go hang in some unmoderated group that exists for the primary purpose of spewing venom.  Around here we much prefer to see an honest exchange of ideas and opinions without recriminations, and without comments like yours tossed in from the peanut gallery by someone who simply wants to watch a fight-to-the-death rather than two mature adults speak in a friendly fashion about topics on which they disagree.

 

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8 minutes ago, rsrandazzo said:

Andres,

I'm going to slap you around gently for this comment.  This is PRECISELY the sort of garbage that isn't needed here.

Mir and I share a tremendous amount of mutual respect for each other's products, companies and development teams.  With that, we are allowed to disagree or see the same thing from slightly different points of view without it being a "clash of titans."

This popularized theory that two individuals cannot discuss differing points of view without fighting is entirely and completely ignorant- and denigrates me and Mir and the reputations we have worked very hard to build within the community.

If you want to see a fight- go hang in some unmoderated group that exists for the primary purpose of spewing venom.  Around here we much prefer to see an honest exchange of ideas and opinions without recriminations, and without comments like yours tossed in from the peanut gallery by someone who simply wants to watch a fight-to-the-death rather than two mature adults speak in a friendly fashion about topics on which they disagree.

 

Robert, I'm sorry if you (or Mir for that instance) took offense! I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings!

I had ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION of being disrespectful of insult anyone! To be frank, I thought that was pretty clear. Obviously I was wrong...

My comment was meant as a (perhaps poor) joke.

Jeez - I'll be quiet for now... 

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I don't really consider myself a "titan" anyway ;) Just one overly enthusiastic scenery developer.

I agree with Robert however, this is hardly a clash. You guys would be surprised on how much we cooperate behind curtains. There is regular, and open communications between our development teams. Not just PMDG, but with FlyTampa, FSDT and other devs as well.

Robert, thanks for your clarification. Your original statement is technically not "false" per say, but it did cause mass confusion for customers. In my opinion customers shouldn't be involved in SDK talk in the first place, we deal with this stuff full time and the level of complexity is mind-boggling. So for customers to make rash decisions about whether A, B or C dev used this or that SDK is a dangerous game. 

In its current form, it's not possible to create a full size airport with 100% P3D v4 SDK without negative consequences for customers. A developer can still (properly) use previous SDK to make stable, clean assets that does not cause problems in the sim. The keyword here is properly, because I do agree there are a few who have some messy assets that cause problems in the sim. 

Just some further clarification for simmers: 

We got a lot of email regarding Dynamic Lighting and old SDK causing frame drops. Older SDK models do not cause performance drops with Dynamic Lighting. This is 100% incorrect, and we tested this *thoroughly*. 

Dynamic lighting performance is very simple from the user perspective (without going into technical detail). Basically.. the more detail at the airport, the bigger performance drop with dynamic lighting. The "dynamic" light forces your system to make a *lot* more calculations to display that light splash when there are a lot of objects. It's really that simple. Other things can be factored in to, especially with complex ground polygons. 

Hopefully this.. and Robert's post provides a bit more clarification so soothe some concerns. 

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18 minutes ago, Mir // Flightbeam said:

I don't really consider myself a "titan" anyway ;) Just one overly enthusiastic scenery developer.

I agree with Robert however, this is hardly a clash...

*sigh*

My remark wasn't meant to disrespect, hurt or in any other way cause a stir! I have already said (more than one time) that it was meant as a joke. I never thought it would be viewed in a negative way, to be honest. But then again, humor and sarcasm is clearly a subjective view. I apparently missed something.

If the comment is so horrendous, please mods, feel free to edit it out. 

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3 hours ago, Mir // Flightbeam said:

There is regular, and open communications between our development teams. Not just PMDG, but with FlyTampa, FSDT and other devs as well.

 

Outstanding. I love reading such positive comments, this kind of stuff assures me that this community is in good hands.

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8 hours ago, Mir // Flightbeam said:

 

 

Since this thread has started we've been getting regular emails from potential customers stating that if our products are not native P3D V4 SDK they will not purchase. So that original comment is not far from the truth unfortunately. It's amazing how fast misinformation can spread. 

In my professional opinion the original statement that started this entire discussion should either be clarified or retracted. In its current form it's not very accurate.

That was the point I was trying to make Mir, albeit not very well :)

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