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Midnight Music

Valuable P3D advice, must read.

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7 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

You don't think it's an absolute rule??? Based off of what?

Based off what I said. I can just find out for myself if something is working correctly or not. I don't need to abide by any sort of "rule" but I can consider it as good advice.

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Seriously, you have a well known developer literally telling you that his support team is seeing problems with what people are doing to p3d v4 but you don't believe it. He's telling you that the massive performance drops with the dynamic lighting is being caused by people throwing in p3d v3 sceneries not optimized for p3d v4, but you don't believe him.

He has every right to post what he thinks -- especially because he has to run a support team. I just disagreed with his "rules". Because there is all kinds of stuff out there that may work fine out there even though it's not officially updated to the newest SDK. Like Manfred Jahn's C-47. Works for the most part, not perfectly, but it doesn't crash my sim, and I'm almost certain it doesn't affect PMDG's simulation.

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What would it take for someone to convince you of these things he wrote about?

Nothing, I'm convinced his support team has to deal with all sorts of issues.

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Is that your approach to your health. You don't want a someone who knows about the human body  way more than you do telling you how to be healthy and what you should and shouldn't do to you body? I'm sure you'll just find out and see?

I'm smart enough to know what's good for my body and the consequences of any risky lifestyles.

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I seriously don't  understant the logic of people in this community anymore.

The smartest thing I have ever learned was to learn from other people's mistakes so I don't make the same ones.

Hey I agree with you on learning from people's mistakes. I just don't agree with these so called "rules". It's more like good advice -- not essential. And that's just like, my opinion, man. :)

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Daniel Moser

 

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2 hours ago, AviatorMoser said:

I don't think this is an absolute rule. And I don't think it's going to ruin a perfectly good sim if you happen to find a scenery that works fine. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, just remove it. I'm more of a I'll-find-out-myself kind of guy. I don't need somebody telling me what is right and wrong for MY sim.

x9999999999999999999999999. 

I can't agree more with this.

You can't live your life with your mind set on "if aint broke aint fix it".


Cheers :)

N.-

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Many are running Taxi2gate p3d scenery in v4 without issues. God knows when the taxi2gate developer will offer new installers as their communication skills are below poor. 

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Eric 

 

 

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Good advice. It seems obvious if you have followed everyone's headaches and growing pains since the v4 release. I've blown up enough installs over the years to know better anyway.

I finally purchased v4 today, and will only be installing Orbx, ChasePlane and the A2A 172 for now. Hope the AS16 installer comes soon.


Aaron Thacker

 

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One also has to keep in mind that Robert did give this advice because they keep seeing more and more users asking for technical support about their products, who have happened to install things into V4 which aren't 100% compatible. 

So he has an interest in reducing work for his support team. And the best way to do that is remind people to not mess up their installation with 3rd Party software that is not up to v4' SDK standards.

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All I'm seeing here is a discussion of semantics. The difference between a rule, a law, a suggestion etc.

Bottom line - LM has suggested that for best results, no add ons be installed that haven't been vetted through their process.

Does this mean that your system will crash and burn if you use a "non" approved item? Nope.

Just because ti installed and runs w/o any problem also doesn't mean that it won't crash your system down the road.

But there IS a reason that the majority of tech support responses from LM begin with -"If you uninstall ALL your add ons, do you still have the problem?"

Perhaps RR might have been better saying Rule of Thumb as opposed to rule. It's a good idea to adhere to the dev's suggestions (LM) just know that if you deviate and have an issue that it could be of your own doing.

Just MHO,

Vic

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From my side, I can only say big thank you to PMDG and Robert.

A quick test revealed to me that what he wrote is right:

I am using Flytampa Vienna and PMDG747 currently as one of my favorites, and I am seeing following GPU usages (GTX980) with 4x SSAA:

No FT Vienna + PMDG lights off: 38%, lights on: 60%

FT Vienna + PMDG lights off: 50%, lights on: 100% (and FPS drop from 30fps to 28fps).

I strongly doubt FT airports have been exported by the new SDK, rather only adapted through the available patch files.

We need to be extremely cautious.

I decided to go back to 0, and really question each addon I install, beginning with the basic ones.

I'd also like to know if it's possible to check it myself.

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2 hours ago, WarpD said:

1 - If the addon's installer wants to place anything within the core sim... think twice.  Seriously.  It's neither required nor preferred by L-M.

2 - If you don't know if the addon has been developed with the correct SDK.  Ask.  Simple as that.

 

I am a developer... and I am telling you, it is time you held developers accountable for doing the right thing... not the quick thing.  It's really quick to make a new installer that knows how to find the new sim and install files the old way.  It is not appropriate to do that.  As developers we should be doing what's right, not what's easy.

If only Ed;-)

If only all (or even a few more) devs thought and acted as you do.  I've pretty much given up trying to get devs to do 'the right thing'.  It became SUCH a 'walking on egg shells' dilemma, with so many devs either being defensive, or worse, 'don't try to tell me how to do my job' attitude.  Remember how things were when P3D first launched?  Don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more than to see exactly what you're saying. I just think it'll take years.

The other thing that springs to mind, that makes what you're saying SO important...  What percentage of flightsim users actually use forums?  What about all the people who just buy stuff, and expect it to work out of the box?! My guess would be a lot. They're going to be in for a nasty shock me thinks.


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8 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 It became SUCH a 'walking on egg shells' dilemma, with so many devs either being defensive, or worse, 'don't try to tell me how to do my job' attitude.

I can understand some of them to a degree. They had developed techniques to circumvent shortcomings of the engine as it were that weren't exactly offcial FSX SDK either. When these workarounds that served them well for years stopped working during the evolution of P3D they found themselves in the situation that some of the stuff their design was lauded for by customers didn't work anymore and that they had to learn a new way to do it, with no guarantee to receiving the same result.

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25 minutes ago, Farlis said:

I can understand some of them to a degree. 

Indeed - so can I. The whole thing puts both devs AND users in a tough spot. All we can really do I think, is EXACTLY what we're doing here..... KEEP dialogue going and keep learning;-)


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1 hour ago, SimonC said:

From my side, I can only say big thank you to PMDG and Robert.

A quick test revealed to me that what he wrote is right:

I am using Flytampa Vienna and PMDG747 currently as one of my favorites, and I am seeing following GPU usages (GTX980) with 4x SSAA:

No FT Vienna + PMDG lights off: 38%, lights on: 60%

FT Vienna + PMDG lights off: 50%, lights on: 100% (and FPS drop from 30fps to 28fps).

I strongly doubt FT airports have been exported by the new SDK, rather only adapted through the available patch files.

We need to be extremely cautious.

I decided to go back to 0, and really question each addon I install, beginning with the basic ones.

I'd also like to know if it's possible to check it myself.

IMHO, your test proves nothing about who is at fault for the performance drop you're seeing. It 'could' be the cumulative effect of FT + PMDG or it 'could' be simply an issue with 4x SSAA + Dynamic Lighting that was missed in LM testing. If I were in the hot seat over this, I might be tempted to deflect the complaining by throwing up a smoke screen pointing at everyone else as the cause.


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Let just everyone do as he/she likes.

All of my FT sceneries are working fine. All of my Justsim sceneries are working fine. AS Frankfurt needs a little adjustment. No problem. All my other AS sceneries are working fine. Etc etc

Most sceneries do not use dll files and will work without an issue. And if some have an issue than uncheck them in the library or uninstall and wait.

P3Dv4 has new building features . That does not mean that if a scenery does not use them they won't work.

Even AS Monastir + my custom adjustments made in 2011 is working fine..

Like I wrote : let everything do as he/she wants. Robert too..

 

 


Gerard

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4 hours ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Glenn,

Would you believe it, I forgot about that! I'll check it out next time this happens. Clearly ORBX have had the foresight to cover all the bases. When I think of the time I wasted last night! Ugh! Idiot! It's really a case of old habits dying hard.

Thanks for the reminder.

Regards,

Mike

Glad I could help! Sometimes its easy to forget many things in the FS world. So many addons and config programs etc.........


Glenn

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Again, IMHO, the writing is on the wall, so to speak. Considering the direction they've been going in the last few years I fully expect that somewhere down the road LM will make it a REQUIREMENT not a suggestion that add-ons follow a specific procedure. My gut tells me it's going to be sooner than later - v5?

Any transition to something new has it's advocates and detractors - we all tend to resist change. After so many years of doing things a certain way, to have to make serious changes in thinking goes against human nature.

But, if we slowly take those steps now, the shock down the road will be less painful.

My fear is that some, who are adopting a head in the sand attitude and intentionally ignoring the writing on the wall are in for a serious shock later.

Vic

  • Upvote 1

 

P3D#1 - 7700K 5.0g ROG X270F 3600 15-15-15 - EVGA RTX 2080ti 1000W PSU 1- 850G EVO SSD, 2-256G OCZ SSD, 1TB,HAF942-H100 Water W1064Pro
40" 4K Monitor 3840x2160 - AS16, ASCA, GEP3D, UTX, Toposim, ORBX Regions, TrackIR
P3D#2 - 3770K 4.7g Asus Z77 1600 7-8-7 GTX1080ti DH14 850W 2-1TB WD HDD,1tb VRap, Armor+ W10 Pro 2 - HannsG 28" Monitors
 

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49 minutes ago, odourboy said:

IMHO, your test proves nothing about who is at fault for the performance drop you're seeing. It 'could' be the cumulative effect of FT + PMDG or it 'could' be simply an issue with 4x SSAA + Dynamic Lighting that was missed in LM testing. If I were in the hot seat over this, I might be tempted to deflect the complaining by throwing up a smoke screen pointing at everyone else as the cause.

I am not trying to prove anyone's fault, I really don't care about pointing fingers - all I care about is to have as good as possible experience, and honestly, there are many fish in a barrel. I agree with Vic, I hope they make it a requirement, as we have lived in this cozy "world" way too long. Time for advancement. We thought x64 will break most of stuff and we will need months of adaptation, but as it turns out, other things break the compatibility.

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