Double navaids & airports

[Bina 59]

I've never had any problem with LN database updates but recently, after installing Baku X by Drzewiecki Design, which in addition to Baku (UBBB) contains all other airports of Azerbaijan, and updating the database I can see double navaids at UBBN (NAX) and even an extra airstrip at UBBL (UB10) (see the images below) even though Baku X is on top of my scenery library (above all other sceneries) and I do NOT have "Read inactive scenery entries" checked in LN. 

I didn't have time to check other airports but these two. Now I wonder why LN depicts the airports this way?

PS: I use the latest version of LN, which is v1.4.3 (revision 449cfa5).

Any help is highly appreciated!

[airernie 263]

Not sure it will help, but I would start with adding the FTX_VECTOR_AEC and FTX_VECTOR_APT folders to the exclude list in Options -> Scenery Library Database.  Once that's done, do a "Load Scenery Library" to rebuild the database.

While it may not be necessary, I added all of my FTX_VECTOR, FTX_OLC, and AI Global Ship Traffic to the exclude list.  If nothing else it speeds up the database build a bit.

Ernie

[albar965 1,040]

Hi Victor,

the double airports are hard to diagnose without the BGL files and loading order. I always try to mimic FSX' behavior which is not so totally well documented. It would be great if you could send me an email with the log of a loading session. 

Regarding the VOR:

The flight simulator does not provide any mechanism that allows to remove old navaids. Therefore I delete all navaids that are close to each other and have the same attributes. These two VORs have a different type ("L" vs. "H") so I keep them.

Do they both show up in the simulator?

Hi Ernie,

17 hours ago, airernie said:

Not sure it will help, but I would start with adding the FTX_VECTOR_AEC and FTX_VECTOR_APT folders to the exclude list in Options -> Scenery Library Database.  Once that's done, do a "Load Scenery Library" to rebuild the database.

LNM might show the wrong airport elevation if you exclude these from loading.  But you should exclude the directories from add-on recognition. Otherwise almost all show up as add-on.

Alex

[airernie 263]

1 hour ago, albar965 said:

LNM might show the wrong airport elevation if you exclude these from loading.  But you should exclude the directories from add-on recognition. Otherwise almost all show up as add-on.

Thanks for the correction.  

I just looked at the manual and it appears that all I need move of my current exclusions are the ORBX related FixedATP, AEC and APT files.  

The others should be fine where they are, unless you see a problem.

Although not shows it looks like I need to add the fsAerodata directories to the exclude add-ons section also.

Ernie

[albar965 1,040]

The "..FixedAPT" and FTX_VECTOR_AEC look like candidates for including into the loading process but excluding them from addon recognition. 

Here is a "scientific" (aka over-complicated but precise) approach:

I'd include everything, then load all the scenery and check which default airports are highlighted wrongly as add-on.

Then look at the involved BGL files in the information window for one of these airports. There you will probably find a path in the list that points to "...FTX_OLC/FTX_VECTOR_FixedAPT/..." or similar. This is most likely an elevation or position correction. The whole directory should be included in loading but excluded from add-on recognition (add it only to the bottom list) since it is default and still looks like default except the new elevation.

 

Alex

Edited June 16, 2017 by albar965

[BEARlyThereCDN 46]

I don't know if this is related or not but I have all of the UT and UT2 installations and I also have MyTraffic Professional running. I found when adding freeware airports that I was seeing multiple towers at some and other strangeness and since I started using Little Navmap some airport charts weren't showing correctly and procedures that might show in LNM weren't available in the simulator. All kinds of strange stuff.

Being the silly naive simmer I am, I just thought putting a particular scenery at a higher priority would overwrite and replace something lower. Of course, that's not even remotely true.

I found a great little freeware program called Simple Airport Scanner by ScruffyDuck Software. After I install a new scenery I run this and it shows me if there's conflicting or duplicate BGL's in other folders. If so, I just go to the ones I don't want loading and change the filename to xxxx.bgl.OFF and any weirdness that was is gone.

[albar965 1,040]

The v4 SDK (same for plain FSX) contains some information how airport developers can replace a whole airport or only parts of it: right here

This is logical and documented but there are a lot of undocumented special cases that almost drove me mad. Especially fsAerodata is pushing the envelope there.

So an add-on does not necessarily overwrite all of a stock airport and some add-ons just do it wrong. I had a freeware EDDF which deleted all approaches in the sim and some other strange encounters.

At the end you have to try out and disable files. I hope the list of involved BGLs in LNM's information window helps with that.

Alex

[BEARlyThereCDN 46]

1 hour ago, albar965 said:

I hope the list of involved BGLs in LNM's information window helps with that.

It has helped me a great deal. I've gotten into the habit after installing a addon and rebuilding the LNM database to select the airport and look at the bottom of the Airport tab to make sure it's showing the scenery I want.

I would be lost (pun intended) without Little Navmap now. It does so much and helps me in so many ways.

[Bina 59]

On 6/17/2017 at 0:09 AM, albar965 said:

Hi Victor,

the double airports are hard to diagnose without the BGL files and loading order. I always try to mimic FSX' behavior which is not so totally well documented. It would be great if you could send me an email with the log of a loading session. 

Regarding the VOR:

The flight simulator does not provide any mechanism that allows to remove old navaids. Therefore I delete all navaids that are close to each other and have the same attributes. These two VORs have a different type ("L" vs. "H") so I keep them.

Do they both show up in the simulator?

Alex

Hi Alex,

Indeed, they both show up in LN but I'm not sure about FSX, need to check. But after reading your reply and Jon's (ADE developer) explanation on duplicate navaids, I'm more than convinced that there is no other way in FSX to modify this behavior... until I shift to P3D and get advantage of their new Exclude Property.  Further investigation revealed that the scenery developers do not necessarily need to include navaids such as VORs and NDBs into their AFCAD files (my case) unless these navaids are wrongly positioned or have updated frequencies since the release of FSX. Or the last resort is to modify stock airport files or delete the duplicate navaid from the addon scenery. Period.

Thanks!

[albar965 1,040]

Hi Victor,

thanks for that discussion link, very interesting. This just shows what a cumbersome mess the whole FSX/P3D scenery system is. 

The exclude property was always there, also in FSX, never seen used. I guess I better support this soon ...

Alex

[Corretto 5]

On 6/17/2017 at 6:46 AM, airernie said:

Thanks for the correction.  

I just looked at the manual and it appears that all I need move of my current exclusions are the ORBX related FixedATP, AEC and APT files.  

The others should be fine where they are, unless you see a problem.

Although not shows it looks like I need to add the fsAerodata directories to the exclude add-ons section also.

Ernie

 

Is there any way to automate adding multiple exclusions like this?

Thanks

Belinda

[airernie 263]

What I did may be overkill.  It may be possible to specify the higher level folder, such as "ORBX\FTX_VECTOR" and have everything excluded below, but I haven't tried it.

I admit that I still don't fully understand the process, so hopefully, Alex will clarify.

However, I should point out.  It was fairly quick to add all of the directories that you see.

Ernie

[albar965 1,040]

Normally you have to add only FTX_Vector_FixedAPT and FTX_VECTOR_AEC (as far as I remember, not at my flying crate now) but you can also add the highest folder like "ORBX\FTX_VECTOR" to the exclusion list.

Also, the directories should be added to the lowest list so that they do not appear as add-on airports on the map. LNM might show the wrong airport elevation or position if you exclude the corrections from loading.

Alex

[airernie 263]

2 hours ago, albar965 said:

Normally you have to add only FTX_Vector_FixedAPT and FTX_VECTOR_AEC (as far as I remember, not at my flying crate now) but you can also add the highest folder like "ORBX\FTX_VECTOR" to the exclusion list.

Yep! The other folders were added as a "no harm, no foul" type of thing.  

I figured that it might speed up the database build, if LMN didn't need to scan the OLC, AI Ships, etc. folders for airports.

Ernie