Terblanche

P3D4 Dynamic Lights and FPS drop

Recommended Posts

Agree, nice thing about the 4K display is that there isn't as much of a need for AA and 2xMSAA or 4xMSAA works just fine.  On my system (6700K 4.7GHz 980Ti), SSAA kills performance regardless of lighting.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Has anyone else noticed that lights do not illuminate the ground unless dynamic lighting is checked? Is this intentional? My performance suffers slightly when using dynamic lighting. Also, I will corroborate that SSAA is unusable on my 980Ti and 7820HK (obviously not a PMDG problem). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, kamaz74 said:

Has anyone else noticed that lights do not illuminate the ground unless dynamic lighting is checked? Is this intentional? My performance suffers slightly when using dynamic lighting. Also, I will corroborate that SSAA is unusable on my 980Ti and 7820HK (obviously not a PMDG problem). 

That's how it works. You either turn DL on and get illumination or leave it off and don't. 

Alex Pugh 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, downscc said:

Agree, nice thing about the 4K display is that there isn't as much of a need for AA and 2xMSAA or 4xMSAA works just fine.  On my system (6700K 4.7GHz 980Ti), SSAA kills performance regardless of lighting.

I'm happy to have someone confirm this!  I'm running a 55" 4K, and with any level of AA on in P3DV4 my frames are almost cut in half.  I turn it off, and I see no change in graphics quality and I regain my frames!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kamaz74 said:

.... Also, I will corroborate that SSAA is unusable on my 980Ti and 7820HK (obviously not a PMDG problem). 

Doesn't mean that PMDG and other developers don't have a problem, cuz in my mind they do..

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, downscc said:

Agree, nice thing about the 4K display is that there isn't as much of a need for AA and 2xMSAA or 4xMSAA works just fine.  On my system (6700K 4.7GHz 980Ti), SSAA kills performance regardless of lighting.

This is exactly what I have discovered. I just purchased my first 4K monitor last week (A Samsung 28-inch model) to go along with my recent upgrade to a GTX-1080Ti. With the 4K, I have found that I need no more than 2xMSAA to eliminate all shimmering - and that modest MSAA setting works very well with Dynamic Lighting. I am definitely able to avoid having to use SSAA entirely with the new monitor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also have a new 4k monitor, but I think my MSAA still needs to be at 4x to eliminate shimmering on my system, but maybe I should revisit that now that I've updated the driver.  As far as performance with dynamic lighting, I discovered that last night when I was in the 777 for the first time doing full-blown test flight.  However, after the PMDG 777 update rolled out, the problem seemed to be fixed on my end. Before that, the other solution was to kill the shadows and reflections and use MSAA at night.  Of course, as soon as I switched the landing or taxi lights off, things went back to normal if I didn't adjust the settings.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Terblanche said:

Then why the FPS drop when you sit at 37,000" over the ocean? And if it is a scenery 'problem' then there will be a drop in FPS with other 3rd party aircraft as well.

Are you sure it's not that you have SSGA and you have a high cloud coverage when it happens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Terblanche said:

... and I thought with P3D that is no problem anymore like it is with FSX that loads everything while P3D only loads the scenery where you are flying. Maybe I'm mistaken but that's what I read somewhere AND with the 64-bit it should not be a problem to fly from EDDF to EGLL while EHAM is loaded as well, and yet the amount of scenery loaded should then influence the overall FPS and not only when you switch lights on and off.

That's something else. You are talking about memory issues. I get low FPS when the sim has to render all of those building plus a complex airliners. Specially the TFDI 717 which seems to be heavier than most. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, warriorpilot said:

Are you sure it's not that you have SSGA

Okay ... some more testing -

@scandinavian13 - you were right, there is no AI-object following me in P3D4 when looking at EFB

The SSGA seems to be the FPS killer with, and only with the PMDG B744 landing lights because no other aircraft's landing lights has any influence on landing lights with SSGA setting. So, it must, has to be P3D4 and not PMDG :huh:

And the settings will be on MSAA when there is a need to fly the B744 at night ... yeeeah shimmering shimmering all the way but hay, no drop in FPS. I'm only going to use P3D for doing VFR flying with some of my Carenado aeries because then the beauty and splendour of P3D4 can be enjoyed in full with SSGA setting. For the rest, back to my trusted old FSX for airline flying ... at least it is stable and there are more than 200 payware airports to choose from when doing airline flying and all is as smooth as a baby's cheeks with (at least on my rig) no VAS or FPS issues. I'm simply too tired now to spend a minute more on trying to find a balance with FPS and shimmering when lighting up the Queen at night. [Sela]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Terblanche said:

Okay ... some more testing -

@scandinavian13 - you were right, there is no AI-object following me in P3D4 when looking at EFB

The SSGA seems to be the FPS killer with, and only with the PMDG B744 landing lights because no other aircraft's landing lights has any influence on landing lights with SSGA setting. So, it must, has to be P3D4 and not PMDG :huh:

And the settings will be on MSAA when there is a need to fly the B744 at night ... yeeeah shimmering shimmering all the way but hay, no drop in FPS. I'm only going to use P3D for doing VFR flying with some of my Carenado aeries because then the beauty and splendour of P3D4 can be enjoyed in full with SSGA setting. For the rest, back to my trusted old FSX for airline flying ... at least it is stable and there are more than 200 payware airports to choose from when doing airline flying and all is as smooth as a baby's cheeks with (at least on my rig) no VAS or FPS issues. I'm simply too tired now to spend a minute more on trying to find a balance with FPS and shimmering when lighting up the Queen at night. [Sela]

That seems about right. SSGA will be more of an impact in the PMDG aircraft because it's a much more complex aircraft already taking a big chunk FPS out compared to other aircraft.

Also consider how big the PMDG lights have to be and then you consider all of the things your Video card has to render being shun by that light and you obviously end up with a lot of performance. 

 

I suggest two things.  Try DSR and then try MMSA 2. That's what I have and my AA is great with not hit on performance. 

I use DSR. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By way of background, I have a i7-6700K 4.6ghz, 16GB RAM GTX1080 Windows 10 Pro latest build (non Creators as it has not pushed to my PC yet).

I have discovered the following (on my PC anyway which should be capable of running Dynamic Lighting without halving my frame rates and stuttering, which is what it is doing and I run clean Nvidia profile, 8MSAA only in game)

1. Landing Lights Illuminate Ground option ticked is the cause of the frame rate halving (30hz on monitor, unlimited target frame rate, VSync and Triple Buffering selected). 30 steady to 15 with that setting on. Selecting it off still provides functioning lights illuminating the ground.

2. It is ONLY the outboard LEFT hand landing light ON that causes the stuttering which is a constant cycle type stutter every 1 to 2 seconds taxiing. If I select all landing INBD, all RWY Turnoff, and only the right OUTBD light, there is no stutter and frames stay at 30FPS. Introducing left, induces the stutter and remains if I turn off the right OUTBD light. On my PC, it is him that is the issue.

The issue does not exist with the B777.

Both aircraft are P3D v4 and latest versions.

Kind Regards,

Mark Wagener

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, warriorpilot said:

 Try DSR and then try MMSA 2. That's what I have and my AA is great with not hit on performance. 

What's you Nvidia Insp settings ... if anything is changed from default?

I'm neither convinced nor so sure that just "because the QOTSII is a big and complex aircraft" that the landing lights should hit the FPS into kingdom come except if you refer back to a way lessor graphic setting ... and as someone else previously said, "I'm using a GTX1080Ti for crap's sake..."

Let's see when the FSLabs A320X is launched for P3D4 and what they did with landing/taxi lights and SS. We will then know if it is a P3D4 problem to fix or a PMDG error to be corrected. I hope for the former otherwise every (big, complex) aircraft will suffer the same fate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gents,

I am afraid that the latest micro update released tonight (in Australia) has made the dynamic lighting worse. I now cannot use it at all where as in the last build it was only the OUTBD LEFT (as posted above) that caused a frame drop and stuttering. I could use all lights but that one.

I have default Nvidia settings, no tweaks in .cfg and modest settings to obtain 30FPS. 

Sorry to report that, I was very pleased to read the change log and nobody was more disappointed than me! 

Kind regards,

Mark Wagener

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same for me, I had about 20-21 fps before the update, now, with the same settings, I have 16 fps, dropping to 13 when I look down at the instruments, unflyable.

The change log says "Performance improvements with dynamic lighting" and "various improvements in dynamic lighting".

Absolutely disappointed...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, mwa05 said:

Sorry to report that, I was very pleased to read the change log and nobody was more disappointed than me!

I wonder if PMDG will still insist that the problem is 3rd party scenery and/or P3D4 and not the QOTSII if it doesn't matter where you are when the FPS drop occurs? IMHO the whole lighting system on the new B744 has been complex and fickle since the release with various problems I had with it in FSX and now in P3D4.

"But hope maketh not ashamed ..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have just tested the 777 in V4 at FHAW (completely surrounded by water) and as soon as i turn on the landing lights, my fps dip from 60 to 18. If i shut them down, framerate returns to steady 60. Changing from SSAA4x to NONE or MSAA4x does absolutely nothing, same huge framerate drop. This never happens to me when flying, just on ground and when water is present.

I have tested several views (cockpit, outside, etc) and as soon as the lights drop out of context (out of view), the framerate climbs again. Same happens with just the lights and no water in sight, framerate climbs although not that much.

If i land in some airport with no water in sight or just small lakes etc, this doesn't happen. I guess that water effects and this dynamic lighting thing is just too much for my 1080. Also verified on a 1080Ti on my dad's computer. My water settings are on "HIGH" btw.

 

Apparently not even the default airports are compiled with the new SDK compiler, Umberto from FSDT said so in some other thread, but he also loves to blame others for any faults within his programs, so i took it with a grain of salt. Might these drops be related to that in case it is true?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Nuno Pinto said:

Might these drops be related to that in case it is true?

What I don't understand is this ... with my 1080Ti there is NO drop in FPS when flying my handful of Carenado aircraft now updated for P3D4 at night and landing lights on with 2x SSGA. If it is a P3D4 Dynamic Light 'problem', shouldn't it then be consistent? 

I still want to see what is the PMDG team's settings in P3D4 and recommended Nvidia Inspector settings (if any) seeing that they claim that 3rd party scenery is the main culprit with FPS when switching the landing lights on. Until then I'm happy to do sight-seeing with the Carenado aircraft in P3D4 and all my airline flights in a happy-go-lucky FSX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no idea as well. But it might be related to the number of polygons being processed at a given time, or something similar. Too technical for a .NET web developer :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gents,

After much more fiddling about, the key is delete your shaders and now try with the new update. That seems to have solved the issue for me.

Kind regards,

Msrk Wagener

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, mwa05 said:

Gents,

After much more fiddling about, the key is delete your shaders and now try with the new update. That seems to have solved the issue for me.

Kind regards,

Msrk Wagener

On the flip side, I've updated to yesterday's patch and deleted shaders and there's no difference for me. YMMV.

Alex Pugh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

On the flip side, I've updated to yesterday's patch and deleted shaders and there's no difference for me. YMMV.

Alex Pugh

Sorry my friend. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me the big "fix" would be to see the runway at night with the Dynamic Lighting switch OFF and the Landing-lights illuminate ground switch in the ON position.

 

While I love the dynamic lighting with V4 I do not need it while I'm flying the 747. I can't help but think what it would be like if Light Bloom was required to see the model during daylight hours in FSX.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me it also got really worse after the latest update (and deleting shaders did not help).  Switching on landing lights brings me from 30 frames to slide show speed at around 8-15 frames,,,completely unusable, so no nightflying so far...(4 x MSAA, 750 TI, at recently released Trondheim airport which should be perfect for V4)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now