Terblanche

P3D4 Dynamic Lights and FPS drop

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I decided to give it a try myself, having just run the OC update a few hours ago. I fired up P3Dv4 (didn't delete shaders) and loaded my B744 in United colors at FSDT KDFW on the runway at night.  All lights work and no impact on frame rate or animation fluidity.  I have all sliders full right except mesh = 2m, 4xMSAA, running an 6700K at 4.7GHz, 980T and a driver several months old with a 4K TV. My Prepar3d.cfg is nearly default, not much tweaking at all.

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After the micro update on the 747 p3dv4 my beacon light does not work (not flashing). I only see the ground splash effect, anybody else notice this after updating?

Eric Moser

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I agree it's worse than before. Prior to the update, I didn't get a FPS hit when using MSAA. Now, it's almost as bad as using SSAA. 

Alex Pugh

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Could those of you having bad performance test something for me? This is an issue I have had with dynamic lighting at night/dusk since before the micro-update but I wonder if people reporting very bad FPS might be affected more now. If I load a situation at night/dusk/dawn with dynamic lighting on, complex airport and complex aircraft (747 especially but also 777, 717), I have about 5 FPS when fully loaded if at a gate. If I then either pan both ways with TrackIR or shift through enough outside views to have covered at least 180 degrees of scenery and some sky, I suddenly get an instant jump to anywhere from 35 FPS in VC to 45 in outside view. And that's it, it doesn't go back down after that. If I reload with a different time or aircraft, the same happens and I must use the same trick to bring FPS up. GPU is at close to 99% the whole time. As though dynamic lighting was subject to a buffer or the GPU must first have seen enough of a scene in dynamic lighting from different views to be able to relax and perform... 6700K @4.8, GTX 1080, G-Sync, single monitor for P3D but second monitor for add-ons.

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3 hours ago, cx777 said:

After the micro update on the 747 p3dv4 my beacon light does not work (not flashing). I only see the ground splash effect, anybody else notice this after updating?

Eric Moser

Yes. Just as you describe it, except I only see the beacon splash on the inboard engine nacelles.

I'll delete my shader cache contents and try again. I'll return for an update if there's any difference.

No difference after deleting the shader cache. [although, I noticed the UHF antenna receive dynamic lighting...nice touch]

BTW, I'm using 2xSSAA, FXAA off, Anisotropic 16x and Texture Res @2048x2048  with a 2560x1440 resolution. I did notice any real difference in FPS when testing at night on payware airfields.

When using FXAA or a higher SSAA, I had the slideshow issue too.

Edited by RichieFly
More info

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21 hours ago, vmounier said:

If I then either pan both ways with TrackIR or shift through enough outside views to have covered at least 180 degrees of scenery and some sky, I suddenly get an instant jump to anywhere from 35 FPS in VC to 45 in outside view.

Holy macaroni - it's true on my system too. Unfortunately it slams back into the dump once I start to taxi and then you swing another 180° view and then it settles again to 'normal' .... 

BUT - we eagerly await PMDG's recommended settings for both P3D4 and Nvidia Inspector because I'm dying to see what the beta testers's settings are seeing that they (apparently) don't have any negative effect with landing lights + dynamic lightning + SS ... except if they all run the Queen on super computers. :ha:

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8 minutes ago, Terblanche said:

Holy macaroni - it's true on my system too. Unfortunately it slams back into the dump once I start to taxi and then you swing another 180° view and then it settles again to 'normal' .... 

BUT - we eagerly await PMDG's recommended settings for both P3D4 and Nvidia Inspector because I'm dying to see what the beta testers's settings are seeing that they (apparently) don't have any negative effect with landing lights + dynamic lightning + SS ... except if they all run the Queen on super computers. :ha:

There are no secret recommended settings. It's been stated a couple dozen times by now that SSAA is the FPS killer if dynamic lighting is on. 

Though I'll add that FPS seems to be worse even using MSAA with this latest update.

Alex Pugh

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1 hour ago, Chapstick said:

Though I'll add that FPS seems to be worse even using MSAA with this latest update.

ABSOLUTELY AGREE!

I'm back at my trusted FSX running as smooth as ever with the 1080Ti and locked at 30FPS, day and night, with only a slight drop at EDDF and EGLL from Aerosoft. The whole P3D4 experience with the PMDG B744 has demper my enthusiasm for this latest, newest, best, whatever 64-bit blah blah fah fah fish-paste!

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2 hours ago, Terblanche said:

Holy macaroni - it's true on my system too. Unfortunately it slams back into the dump once I start to taxi and then you swing another 180° view and then it settles again to 'normal' .... 

Glad to know I'm not going bonkers! This seems so hard to pinpoint as I'm not having the drop back down on taxi. So many variables. I posted this on the P3D forum too as it doesn't seem necessarily PMDG-related.

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9 hours ago, Chapstick said:

There are no secret recommended settings. It's been stated a couple dozen times by now that SSAA is the FPS killer if dynamic lighting is on. 

Though I'll add that FPS seems to be worse even using MSAA with this latest update.

Alex Pugh

Exactly, that's the prblem, it's well known that SSAA is a frame killer, but the problem is that, even with MSAA, fps are lower after the latest update! They already dropped with lights on before the update, now even more! 

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I agree that the latest update seems worse than the previous one.

The problem seemed solved for me on the previous update, now I have a visible 15/20fps drop with lights on.

I hope the P3D "hotfix" we are waiting for addresses this issue as well.

 

Regards

 

Mike

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Can someone with the FPS drop try reverting to NVidia driver 376.33 and let us know if there is any difference?

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I saw an earlier request for beta systems specifications, and in general we are representative of the customer base and there are a variety of systems among us.  This is desired as a beta testing objective.  I have a good system but not a top of the line:  i7-6700K OC 4.7 GHz DDR4 16 GB 3400 MHz DDR4 RAM and video is GTX980Ti driving a 42-in 4K TV.  I do not have lighting issues (red beacons don't look quite right... all else is good) and I have FXAA off, 4xMSAA, frame rate lock at 20 and TV refresh 30 Hz.  I found the frame rate lock was really important in v3 because without it overcast clouds would cripple my system.  Even a rate lock of 30 fps would drop into the low teens in certain cloudy situations.  On my system, the big performance hits disappear at rate locks of 24 fps or lower.  Give it a try.

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LM hotfix for P3D v4 is out. I did not see anything related to dynamic lighting performance in the change log and am very disappointed about this. So I doubt that there will be an improvement with the 747 lights, anyway I hope to be wrong and wait for comments after updating (unfortunately I can't access my computer for the time being).

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2 hours ago, downscc said:

Even a rate lock of 30 fps would drop into the low teens in certain cloudy situations.  On my system, the big performance hits disappear at rate locks of 24 fps or lower.  Give it a try.

Thank you Dan -

I agree on the FPS lock and I'm using it with great success in FSX as well. Interesting that you drop it down to 20 because I always thought 30 is about the standard for a balance between texture loading (quality) and performance. The one thing I did notice on the forums is the fact that a lot of simmers are on 4K TV sets and it seems that with that you can drop down on the MSAA without losing any quality. The amount of shimmering in P3D4 is really hurting my eyes! 

A 4K TV is still way too expensive in South Africa to buy that just for Flightsim because my Nvidia 1080Ti already costed me an arm and a leg. Topped that on buying P3D4 plus the PMDG aircraft again for P3D and it's now my liver, an eye and one test!cle too! Soon only the hand will be left to fly and forum.

I've looked through the specs of the HotFix and there is no mention of Dynamic Lights except for the weirdos that fly with VR. It seems we will still have to wait and my suspicion is that Aerosoft and FSLabs are waiting to see what the update will be on this Disaster Dynamic Lights topic before they release their aircraft for P3D4.

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34 minutes ago, Terblanche said:

A 4K TV is still way too expensive in South Africa to buy that just for Flightsim because my Nvidia 1080Ti already costed me an arm and a leg.

Ouch! I guess.  The things are a commodity in some parts of the world.  US price on Amazon for a 40-in 4K Samsung is $US 500.  By the way, what do you think of NMG's FACT, do you have it in P3Dv4?  I have their FAOR but none of the terminal buildings work in v4.

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5 minutes ago, downscc said:

By the way, what do you think of NMG's FACT, do you have it in P3Dv4?  I have their FAOR but none of the terminal buildings work in v4.

As an old :biggrin: PPL and CPL pilot I have all their scenery simply because I did a lot of flying up and down South Africa in real life. The guys are doing a good job but once you are used to FlyTampa, Aerosoft, JustSim, and ORBX it is very difficult to go back to NMG. The new Mesh from NMG does however at least give an idea of Table Mountain. One day, I wish, I dream, ORBX will do a Cape Town scenery because believe me, and I've been a few places in the world, my hometown is quite spectacular. 

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1 minute ago, Terblanche said:

ORBX will do a Cape Town scenery

I'd buy that!

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3 hours ago, Terblanche said:

As an old :biggrin: PPL and CPL pilot I have all their scenery simply because I did a lot of flying up and down South Africa in real life. The guys are doing a good job but once you are used to FlyTampa, Aerosoft, JustSim, and ORBX it is very difficult to go back to NMG. The new Mesh from NMG does however at least give an idea of Table Mountain. One day, I wish, I dream, ORBX will do a Cape Town scenery because believe me, and I've been a few places in the world, my hometown is quite spectacular. 

Spectacular it is! I'll consider myself satisfied if Orbx gives us a good enough scenery that I can find my way up India Venster and down Platteklip. ;-)

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7 hours ago, Meekg said:

I tried to rollback to 376.3... same thing.

Damn that's a pity, it fixed the FPS drop for another user in another thread.

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Anyone tried the P3D v4 hotfix? I start collecting comments on FB but most people don't find any benefit after the 744 update and the P3D hotfix. At this point I really wonder what PMDG means with "Performance improvements with dynamic lighting" and "Various improvements in dynamic lighting", as it can be read in the 744 update changelog... 

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2 hours ago, jgoggi said:

what PMDG means with "Performance improvements with dynamic lighting" and "Various improvements in dynamic lighting", as it can be read in the 744 update changelog...

The best question in the whole thread ...

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18 hours ago, jgoggi said:

LM hotfix for P3D v4 is out. I did not see anything related to dynamic lighting performance in the change log and am very disappointed about this. So I doubt that there will be an improvement with the 747 lights, anyway I hope to be wrong and wait for comments after updating (unfortunately I can't access my computer for the time being).

I confirm the hotfix did not solve the issue, however I wouldn't be so pessimistic and disappointed.

The problem seemed to have been solved in the previous update, so maybe it's just a matter of finding out what brought it back into the latest version.

Also, I do not experience the same drop with the 777, therefore I'm sure it can be fixed.

 

Just to elaborate a bit further, with my setup FPS is around 30+ at full load on final approach. (FlyTampa, FTX Global, FTX HD Trees, AS+ASCA, all sliders to max, 4096 textures).

I'm still VERY happy with my migration to P3D; I find I can finally make full use of my rig.

With the external lights on I experience a low peak at 15+ (generally after landing/on ground), which is still usable, although not ideal for fluidity.

I also get a drop in the same range when ground operations are active (I suspect due to vehicles dynamic lights).

20 hours ago, downscc said:

I found the frame rate lock was really important in v3 because without it overcast clouds would cripple my system.

I do experience the same when above an overcast layer, I will try, thanks for the tip.

 

Mike

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