Dear PMDG - What does 64bit allow you to do that you couldn't before

[aceridgey 330]

Hi all,

 

I can imagine it's been quite difficult fitting ngx, 777 and 747 into a 32bit platform.

 

What are some things you've wanted to to include in the past, but were simply not able to previously and what general things can we expect to see going forward in V4?

 

Alex

[CaptainGabe 81]

First thing I could think of when I first heard of 64-bit sim: Weathering effects on aircraft. After continuous flights using the same plane in the sim, windows, fuselage gets dirtier and dirtier. Like, Air France 777-200 dirty!

It would be one of those small details that just increase the sim experience. 

That's just one thing I can image 64-bit allowing. 

I'd like a peak into the imagination of PMDG though.

[wedgantilles 76]

64 bits in itself does not allow anything but the programs to use 64 bits of addressable memory, which basically means the 3GB VAS limit is gone. 

Other than that it does not allow as far as I can tell on it's own anything. The weather like rain effet is something that was limited by the number of animations if I rememebr correctly, which is some limitation of the P3D engine, and I don't believe 64 bits ever had anything to do with this. There are other things that can limit an engine. So I would not think of anything specific made possible y just going 64 bits.

All the other stuffs really depends on what new things are made available by LM thorugh the engine SDK.

[BlueFinn 21]

Smoother animations for sure.. 

[aceridgey 330]

10 minutes ago, BlueFinn said:

Smoother animations for sure.. 

Correct me if i am wrong guys but I don't think PMDG will change this just because of 64bit?

 

Alex

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Honestly, not much. We've been pretty VAS conscious, and have tried to minimize VAS hit to the best of our ability for a number of years. Granted, our aircraft do consume a good bit of VAS, but they do so in a very streamlined manner. In other words, in order to get the level of detail and the number of features into the aircraft, it's a necessity to consume a certain level of VAS. All the same, we do so while attempting to optimize wherever possible.

Apart from loosening the buffer off of the amount of detail and other "things" you can put into the sim (textures, scenery, planes, etc.), everything else is placebo effect. 64 bit is simply increasing the size of the box that you can put stuff in. It does nothing other than give you more room. Smoother animations is the result of other optimizations in the sim engine, unrelated to the 32->64 bit transition.

In theory, it allows us to pack in more detail, but we're still constrained by sim constraints: animation limits, poly limits, and so on. I'm sure our specific devs can provide better answers to this last point, but the main point remains: 64 bit is simply a bigger box. Nothing else.

[gregmorin 199]

P3Dv4 64 bit allows me to fly my 777 into FSDT KLAX with Orbx SCA, AS and ASCA smoothly with good FPS.

Greg

[Patco Lch 1,465]

Thanks Kyle,

Just as I thought P3D is mainly an engine for better eye candy. This for me does not justify the expense of a new SSD, the$200 licenses, repurchase of my PMDG planes and other expenses I calculate to exceed $1000. My sim experience will be better served by saving that money to put down on  my next rig.  Just my personal position so please folks, don't shoot me through with fiery darts.

May I add PMDG works miracles at giving very acceptable performance on modest systems and for that I am very grateful.

[anden145 2,285]

Quote

What does 64bit allow you to do that you couldn't before

Wet myself of excitement! 

[angeli662 43]

1 hour ago, gregmorin said:

P3Dv4 64 bit allows me to fly my 777 into FSDT KLAX with Orbx SCA, AS and ASCA smoothly with good FPS.

Greg

As long you've got a good PC

[flyforever 267]

Memory limitations, just like hard disk limitations at one time, forced many developers to be extremely efficient.

Now, some will be very sloppy. The extra features will only tax the cpu or gpu, which means that the cycle starts all over again.

tony

[DavidP 1,410]

52 minutes ago, flyforever said:

Now, some will be very sloppy. The extra features will only tax the cpu or gpu, which means that the cycle starts all over again.

I guess it gets down to what the simmer wants - some want the world modeled to the "nth" blade of grass, other just want something that is plausible.. These days, I rarely buy highly detailed airports because I am not interested in having the insides of terminals modeled, static traffic, a million individually modeled blades of grass, cows, etc and other things that simply just eat up resources. Other simmers mileages might vary, but in the pre-64 bit days, I never had an OOM. Of course, you were watching available VAS head south, but for the fact that now you don't have to worry about that anymore, P3D4 is worth the price of admission alone.

2 hours ago, PATCO LCH said:

May I add PMDG works miracles at giving very acceptable performance on modest systems and for that I am very grateful.

My feelings exactly - what PMDG could do with their share of the "box" was and is miraculous.

[richcam427 29]

4 hours ago, flyforever said:

Memory limitations, just like hard disk limitations at one time, forced many developers to be extremely efficient.

Now, some will be very sloppy. The extra features will only tax the cpu or gpu, which means that the cycle starts all over again.

tony

I don't necessarily think so. Developers have been constrained by FSX for over 10 years now, and they have adapted well to working within an inherently buggy 32-bit environment. I don't think that they will all of a sudden decide to throw everything out the window as far as optimization is concerned just because they can. Like others have said, the new 64-bit environment just allows for more wiggle room as far as memory usage is concerned. No longer do we have to worry about flying the QOTS into a payware Heathrow add-on airport fearing OOMs.

[PMDG777 231]

11 minutes ago, richcam427 said:

I don't necessarily think so. Developers have been constrained by FSX for over 10 years now, and they have adapted well to working within an inherently buggy 32-bit environment. I don't think that they will all of a sudden decide to throw everything out the window as far as optimization is concerned just because they can. Like others have said, the new 64-bit environment just allows for more wiggle room as far as memory usage is concerned. No longer do we have to worry about flying the QOTS into a payware Heathrow add-on airport fearing OOMs.

Sloppy maybe not, but I do foresee some developers (particularly scenery) packing heaps of detail that is not really required, just because VAS allows them to.

The limit in 32bit P3D and FSX was VAS, the limit now is going to be outright CPU and GPU performance. If developers start packing heaps of pointless details into the sim, all those polygons, hi res textures etc. plus all of that anti aliased, is going to grind any computer to a complete stand still. Developers need to not see the new VAS increase as a means to cram detail, they need to be conscientious and consider sustaining a high fidelity sim, while maintaining good performance.

Unless Intel releases a 10 core, 5GHz base clock turbo up to 6GHz CPU tomorrow of course.

[sultanofswing 57]

I for one would really like to see the Wing animations updated to not look like they are being animated at 24fps.  One thing I do like about X-Plane is there wing animations are extremely fluid and look just like the real deal.

Would you guys possibly be looking at that in the future?