mtbparker

P3Dv4 CTD During Descent. Solved... (I'm pretty sure)

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Hey Folks,

For the sake of record and to help the next guy in line, I'd like to report that I had a fairly predictable CTD with P3Dv4 and that I'm pretty sure I fixed it.

I flew three flights with the PMDG 777:  1) KDEN->KIAD, 2) KDEN->KIAD, 3) KDEN->KIAH.   All three flights crashed to desktop during the descent on the arrival.  Typically around the FL240 mark, which for me is when I start mucking around a lot with things for landing -- particularly the FMC.  For flights 1 & 2, it happened in almost the exact same spot over MGW VOR on the GIBBZ2 arrival.  Flight 3 was almost the same except of course that I was in a different location.  That eliminates a scenery issue.  Using AppCrashView, I could see that all 3 CTDs were occurring in clr.dll which is associated with .NET framework.

I upgraded my .NET framework from 4.5 to 4.7.  I also cleaned out several versions of .NET 4.6.   (I'm a SW developer by trade and had Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition installed which brought with it a whole host of .NET libraries.  I uninstalled all of that too.)  My fourth flight, from KDEN->KIAH was successful.

My system setup:
 

EVGA X99 w/ Intel 5930K CPU
8GB RAM
256GB Samsung EVO SSD for Win10 Anniv Ed. OS
256GB Samsung NVMe 950 M.2 SSD for P3D
4TB Western Digital HD for storage.
EVGA GTX 970 Graphics Card

P3Dv4 4.0.23.21468
ASP4 w/ ASCA B6383
Orbx, all available base packages and NA regions
PMDG 777
FSDreamTeam / FlightBeam KIAH, KIAD, KDEN
A2A Commanche, A2A C182

I hope this helps.  Also, I've only had one successful flight.  But the crash was pretty repeatable, so my confidence is high that I got it.

Cheers,

Tom

 

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Good day, 

I just had the exact same issue coming into KIAH from OMDB PMDG 777. I have had it a few times while flying through Canada. I thought it could have been AS4 or UTlive, I kept them off for a while and it changed nothing. 

 

Exact same as you, on descent somewhere between FL200 and 250 then sim just disappears. 

I was on .net 4.6.2. As per your advice I downloaded 4.7.1 and I'm hoping this will stop the issue. 

Have you had any issues since?

Thank you for taking the time to write this up. 

 

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On 6/25/2017 at 8:59 PM, mtbparker said:

I upgraded my .NET framework from 4.5 to 4.7.  I also cleaned out several versions of .NET 4.6.   (I'm a SW developer by trade and had Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition installed which brought with it a whole host of .NET libraries.  I uninstalled all of that too.)  My fourth flight, from KDEN->KIAH was successful.

I doubt that is the fix.  That's not the dotnet used by Lockheed for P3DV4.0.  Developers assign dotnet versions when a product is released.  Same with Microsoft Visuals.  They are not backward compatible.  Some addons use MSV's and dotnets developed many years ago.

You are running P3DV4.0.  It had some bugs in it and was recently upgraded to 4.1.  You should have upgraded your product.

See the AVSIM CTD Guide, pages 26 and 27 for more information. 

I have completed several long flights of 2 hours or less and still have not had a crash with V4.1.

Best regards,

Jim

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2 hours ago, Jim Young said:

I doubt that is the fix.  That's not the dotnet used by Lockheed for P3DV4.0.  Developers assign dotnet versions when a product is released.  Same with Microsoft Visuals.  They are not backward compatible.  Some addons use MSV's and dotnets developed many years ago.

You are running P3DV4.0.  It had some bugs in it and was recently upgraded to 4.1.  You should have upgraded your product.

See the AVSIM CTD Guide, pages 26 and 27 for more information. 

I have completed several long flights of 2 hours or less and still have not had a crash with V4.1.

Best regards,

Jim

Hi Jim,

My 4.1 rarely crashes but when it does, it just disappears. It is always, absolutely always on the descent, never during any other phase of the flight. 

In the past few days I have flown from 

OMDB TO FACT 

FACT TO OMDB

OMDB TO OLBA 

OLBA TO OMDB

Not one issue.

Last night I flew from OMDB to KIAH (FT OMDB to stock P3D KIAH). Right around FL220, the sim just disappeared.  I wasnt touching anything, changing views etc etc. 

My UTLive traffic is set for ground traffic to be loaded at FL180. AS4 had the flights plan loaded. 

Pmdg 777-300ER

Orbx everything 

GSX

Fs2crew.

 

The only thing I can think of is AS4 having an error but nothing was reported. 

 

Ideas?

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Hi Jordan,

Is there anything in the Event Viewer?  Any Windows Error Report (use AppCrashView)?  I have seen this my self but it was happening with P3DV4.  When Lockheed updated P3DV4 to 4.1, crashes stopped.  My crashes were because of a bad configuration of the scenery.cfg and Addon Manager.  They must be 100% synchronized in regards to Layers because the Addon Organizer handles the stuff properly installed by the P3D SDK and the Scenery cfg has the stuff that is not yet configured properly by the SDK.  The Lorby-SI Addon Organizer allows you to look at the layers to make sure the scenery.cfg stuff and addon stuff is properly sequenced. If they are not, you sim will crash to the desktop w/o explanation.  You can be flying along and the sim CTD's.  If the encoding is not proper, I have had crashes where my scenery.cfg or an addon.xml is not encoded properly.  I encode it properly and the problems go away.  P3D requires proper coding of the cfg's and xml's. 

If the Event Viewer or AppCrashView reports indicates it is an ntdll faulting module, the cause could be one of your AI is not compatible (have not heard anything bad yet from UTLive Traffic or a bad overclock where the system heats up because of high P3D settings and/or display driver settings.  It could be a Power Supply issue where the Power Supply is not high enough to run the sim and the sim will crash when it needs a lot of resources.  Your RAM DIMMS may not be installed properly and/or have the wrong voltage settings.  There is absolutely many possibilities because P3D uses a lot of resources... well, demands a lot of resources throughout the flight.  That's why there is an AVSIM CTD Guide, to help you investigate why you are getting crashes.  I would start on page 9, how to fix most CTD's/Freezes while flying in P3DV4.1, first.  Just rename the P3D.cfg to P3D.cfg.off and the two dll.xml's to dll.xml.off.  Leave the Addons as most problems are fixed by rebuilding your p3d.cfg and dll.xml's (only the one in your scenery.cfg folder will be rebuilt as it is the default location).

Best regards,

Jim

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40 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

Hi Jordan,

Is there anything in the Event Viewer?  Any Windows Error Report (use AppCrashView)?  I have seen this my self but it was happening with P3DV4.  When Lockheed updated P3DV4 to 4.1, crashes stopped.  My crashes were because of a bad configuration of the scenery.cfg and Addon Manager.  They must be 100% synchronized in regards to Layers because the Addon Organizer handles the stuff properly installed by the P3D SDK and the Scenery cfg has the stuff that is not yet configured properly by the SDK.  The Lorby-SI Addon Organizer allows you to look at the layers to make sure the scenery.cfg stuff and addon stuff is properly sequenced. If they are not, you sim will crash to the desktop w/o explanation.  You can be flying along and the sim CTD's.  If the encoding is not proper, I have had crashes where my scenery.cfg or an addon.xml is not encoded properly.  I encode it properly and the problems go away.  P3D requires proper coding of the cfg's and xml's. 

If the Event Viewer or AppCrashView reports indicates it is an ntdll faulting module, the cause could be one of your AI is not compatible (have not heard anything bad yet from UTLive Traffic or a bad overclock where the system heats up because of high P3D settings and/or display driver settings.  It could be a Power Supply issue where the Power Supply is not high enough to run the sim and the sim will crash when it needs a lot of resources.  Your RAM DIMMS may not be installed properly and/or have the wrong voltage settings.  There is absolutely many possibilities because P3D uses a lot of resources... well, demands a lot of resources throughout the flight.  That's why there is an AVSIM CTD Guide, to help you investigate why you are getting crashes.  I would start on page 9, how to fix most CTD's/Freezes while flying in P3DV4.1, first.  Just rename the P3D.cfg to P3D.cfg.off and the two dll.xml's to dll.xml.off.  Leave the Addons as most problems are fixed by rebuilding your p3d.cfg and dll.xml's (only the one in your scenery.cfg folder will be rebuilt as it is the default location).

Best regards,

Jim

Thanks for the response Jim.

When it crashes there is not windows error report. The sim just dissapears out of nowhere. I deleted my scenery.cfg and rebuilt it. When it was rebuilding, is said there was an error with P3D stock Orlanda, Kennedy Space Center and Rockworth so I left them unloaded. I made sure ORBX and My FT sceneries were installed correctly in the correct order in the scenery library.

There is no error with my computer, the build is about 8 months old. 6700K at 4.5ghz water cooled and stable. 16 gb ram, Dimms are installed correctly at the appropriate voltage and frequency. It is definitely a software issue. 

I will allow the p3d.cfg to rebuild along with the 2 dll.xmls and see what happens. I will also go through the CTD guide.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to respond and explain some items. Should I look into this Lorby -SI addon organizer?

 

Jordan

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51 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

Hi Jordan,

Is there anything in the Event Viewer?  Any Windows Error Report (use AppCrashView)?  I have seen this my self but it was happening with P3DV4.  When Lockheed updated P3DV4 to 4.1, crashes stopped.  My crashes were because of a bad configuration of the scenery.cfg and Addon Manager.  They must be 100% synchronized in regards to Layers because the Addon Organizer handles the stuff properly installed by the P3D SDK and the Scenery cfg has the stuff that is not yet configured properly by the SDK.  The Lorby-SI Addon Organizer allows you to look at the layers to make sure the scenery.cfg stuff and addon stuff is properly sequenced. If they are not, you sim will crash to the desktop w/o explanation.  You can be flying along and the sim CTD's.  If the encoding is not proper, I have had crashes where my scenery.cfg or an addon.xml is not encoded properly.  I encode it properly and the problems go away.  P3D requires proper coding of the cfg's and xml's. 

If the Event Viewer or AppCrashView reports indicates it is an ntdll faulting module, the cause could be one of your AI is not compatible (have not heard anything bad yet from UTLive Traffic or a bad overclock where the system heats up because of high P3D settings and/or display driver settings.  It could be a Power Supply issue where the Power Supply is not high enough to run the sim and the sim will crash when it needs a lot of resources.  Your RAM DIMMS may not be installed properly and/or have the wrong voltage settings.  There is absolutely many possibilities because P3D uses a lot of resources... well, demands a lot of resources throughout the flight.  That's why there is an AVSIM CTD Guide, to help you investigate why you are getting crashes.  I would start on page 9, how to fix most CTD's/Freezes while flying in P3DV4.1, first.  Just rename the P3D.cfg to P3D.cfg.off and the two dll.xml's to dll.xml.off.  Leave the Addons as most problems are fixed by rebuilding your p3d.cfg and dll.xml's (only the one in your scenery.cfg folder will be rebuilt as it is the default location).

Best regards,

Jim

I think I may have found some information. 

I had a crash this morning then attempted the flight again and had another crash. I will attach what my event viewer says.

Application: utl_client.exe
Framework Version: v4.0.30319
Description: The process was terminated due to an unhandled exception.
Exception Info: System.AccessViolationException
   at <Module>.SimConnect_CallDispatch(Void*, Void (SIMCONNECT_RECV*, UInt32, Void*), Void*)
   at Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect.SimConnect.ReceiveDispatch(Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect.SignalProcDelegate)
   at Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect.SimConnect.ReceiveMessage()
   at utl_client.MainWindow.ProcessSimConnectWin32Events(IntPtr, Int32, IntPtr, IntPtr, Boolean ByRef)
   at System.Windows.Interop.HwndSource.PublicHooksFilterMessage(IntPtr, Int32, IntPtr, IntPtr, Boolean ByRef)
   at MS.Win32.HwndWrapper.WndProc(IntPtr, Int32, IntPtr, IntPtr, Boolean ByRef)
   at MS.Win32.HwndSubclass.DispatcherCallbackOperation(System.Object)
   at System.Windows.Threading.ExceptionWrapper.InternalRealCall(System.Delegate, System.Object, Int32)
   at System.Windows.Threading.ExceptionWrapper.TryCatchWhen(System.Object, System.Delegate, System.Object, Int32, System.Delegate)
   at System.Windows.Threading.Dispatcher.LegacyInvokeImpl(System.Windows.Threading.DispatcherPriority, System.TimeSpan, System.Delegate, System.Object, Int32)
   at MS.Win32.HwndSubclass.SubclassWndProc(IntPtr, Int32, IntPtr, IntPtr)
   at MS.Win32.UnsafeNativeMethods.DispatchMessage(System.Windows.Interop.MSG ByRef)
   at System.Windows.Threading.Dispatcher.PushFrameImpl(System.Windows.Threading.DispatcherFrame)
   at System.Windows.Threading.Dispatcher.PushFrame(System.Windows.Threading.DispatcherFrame)
   at System.Windows.Application.RunDispatcher(System.Object)
   at System.Windows.Application.RunInternal(System.Windows.Window)
   at System.Windows.Application.Run(System.Windows.Window)
   at utl_client.Application.Main()

 

Then exactly 2 seconds later

 

Faulting application name: utl_client.exe, version: 1.1.0.0, time stamp: 0x5a328b14
Faulting module name: SimConnect.dll, version: 10.0.61637.0, time stamp: 0x46fad5b6
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x00001fe4
Faulting process id: 0x121c
Faulting application start time: 0x01d3832fbd9cd1ed
Faulting application path: C:\FLIGHT ONE SOFTWARE\ULTIMATE TRAFFIC LIVE\utl_client.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.flightsimulator.simconnect_67c7c14424d61b5b_10.0.61259.0_none_55f5ecdc14f60568\SimConnect.dll
Report Id: da46ecbd-ef25-11e7-be45-d8fb5ef97805

 

I tried again this afternoon and then this error happened on the same flight

Faulting application name: Prepar3D.exe, version: 4.1.7.22841, time stamp: 0x59d67e95
Faulting module name: ntdll.dll, version: 6.1.7601.23539, time stamp: 0x57c99b8f
Exception code: 0xc0000374
Fault offset: 0x00000000000bf262
Faulting process id: 0x10b8
Faulting application start time: 0x01d383351289bb80
Faulting application path: C:\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\Prepar3D.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll
Report Id: 497a7311-ef3b-11e7-a82c-d8fb5ef97805

 

This last one just stopped and said the program had to be closed instead of the standard disappearance. 

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The first crash was caused by UTLive and Simconnect.  Did you to in P3D folder and the redist/interface folder and install all of the oldie simconnects.  For instance, click on FSX-RTM/lib and install that simconnect, FSX-SP1/lib and install that one, and FSX-SP2-XPack/lib and install that one?  You're suppose to.  Also ESPv1.  May not need it but it won't hurt.

The second error was caused by high settings.  See the pinned topic for the fix for ntdll/0374 faults.  Rebuilding the P3D.cfg and not touching the settings will fix this problem (don't touch the settings as you are testing to see if this was the issue).  If the crash continues, then it was something more serious and most likely a bad OC or voltage issue.  If your OC is not set to Optimized Defaults, then you need to set it to Optimized Defaults.

In the first crash, the Framework version was the right version.  It caused the crash as dotnets do that when things are not installed properly as intended by the developer of the product.

39 minutes ago, jshek said:

Thanks again for taking the time to respond and explain some items. Should I look into this Lorby -SI addon organizer?

AVSIM hosts the Lorby_Si forums and his Addon Organizer is freeware and easy to set up (pretty much does it by itself).  It will show all of your programs that were installed using the addon.xml and those that are still in your scenery.cfg.  It will show them all in proper order to avoid an addon that is in an Addon.xml from having the same area/layer as one in your scenery.cfg.  He has a manual for it and I was at first intimidated but decided to jump in with both feet as this is the way addons are going to be installed in the future (including Orbx stuff) and you might as well get it figured out now.  I like it as it has a tab for addon components, like autogen, textures, scripts, etc., that developers might have included with their products.  The scenery.cfg does not see these components and will just load the default stuff instead.  This is in P3DV4 only. 

Hope this helps and you can get this issue fixed soon.  I know what it is like when you have a long flight and it suddenly crashes on the way down to the finish line.  But, my installations of my addons are "perfect" now and all of the areas/layers are in sequence.  I have pretty much max settings in P3D (the first page is maxed), but I don't need cloud reflections on the water, a lot of autogen, buildings, etc.  In this respect, P3DV4 simply cannot handle some addons when you have a lot of autogen and buildings and shadows and a lot of the other eye-candy.  So, you have to see what you want to see when you are at FL200 or higher.  Does seeing trees at 20,000 feet a must have requirement during a flight?  I think so for GA but not for the Heavies.  Most commercial addon scenery already have built-in trees and buildings around the airport so, when you are on final, it will give you a lot of immersion.

Happy New Year!

Best regards,

Jim

 

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