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racingmars

Initial cruise altitude 16,000 feet?

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Just now, Captain Kevin said:

Watching a video on YouTube of the Lufthansa MD-11 that went around the world in 66 hours, looks like the MD-11 would have the same issue. I would imagine a lot of heavy jets would need to do it.

Yes I forgot about ye olde MD11. I don't think we would see an A300, A330, B767, B787 or even A380 need to go above 250 clean though; seems to be more of an issue on the really highly loaded wings. I may be wrong.

All off topic of course! :biggrin:


Wes Meyer

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It's been a long time, but I am almost certain that min clean on the B767 at/near MTOW was in the region of 260 kt +.

Incidentally, it's probably also worth noting that the 'rule' is only actually law in the USA: in the rest of the world it is at best an ATC restriction and as such can be (and regularly is) lifted by a controller.


Simon Kelsey

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52 minutes ago, skelsey said:

It's been a long time, but I am almost certain that min clean on the B767 at/near MTOW was in the region of 260 kt +.

Incidentally, it's probably also worth noting that the 'rule' is only actually law in the USA: in the rest of the world it is at best an ATC restriction and as such can be (and regularly is) lifted by a controller.

https://www.ivao.aero/training/documentation/books/APC_Aircraft_perf.pdf

Page 5. Poor 767 is not even listed. I expect it would fall into the "heavy liner" block. I wonder what Concorde was?


Wes Meyer

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54 minutes ago, 77west said:

https://www.ivao.aero/training/documentation/books/APC_Aircraft_perf.pdf

Page 5. Poor 767 is not even listed. I expect it would fall into the "heavy liner" block. I wonder what Concorde was?

Those look more like clean speeds for approach rather than departure. Departure clean speeds are going to be much higher with the planes being heavier.


Captain Kevin

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Air Kevin 124 heavy, wind calm, runway 4 left, cleared for take-off.

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On 7/2/2017 at 6:19 PM, 77west said:

 I wonder what Concorde was?

I was under the impression that when a Concorde was departing, they were allowed to accelerate up to around 300 knots with all speed restriction waived. 


John Moore

Milviz Production Manager (posts are of my own opinion)

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3 hours ago, Milton Waddams said:

I was under the impression that when a Concorde was departing, they were allowed to accelerate up to around 300 knots with all speed restriction waived. 

That's not limited to the Concorde.  Officially, the 250kts/10,000' restriction applies to all aircraft.  But it is virtually standard that ATC will wave this for heavy aircraft, clearing them to their minimum clean speed.  Otherwise, more than a few heavy 747, 777, etc would have to fly with the flaps out up to 10,000' with a big hit in noise and performance/fuel consumption). 


Eric Szczesniak

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10 minutes ago, ESzczesniak said:

That's not limited to the Concorde.  Officially, the 250kts/10,000' restriction applies to all aircraft.  But it is virtually standard that ATC will wave this for heavy aircraft, clearing them to their minimum clean speed.  Otherwise, more than a few heavy 747, 777, etc would have to fly with the flaps out up to 10,000' with a big hit in noise and performance/fuel consumption). 

Concorde was given special privileges though due to the characteristics of that aircraft. Most heavies, as stated above, will fly at clean speed with acceleration past 10,000, bar any limiting factors. Concorde had the privilege of accelerating to basically whatever speed was determined to be required by the pilots. Most heavies have to fly to 10,000 at clean speed and not past.


John Moore

Milviz Production Manager (posts are of my own opinion)

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