Looks like DT needs to change it's policy on 3rd party developers

[A32xx 129]

4 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Which is what I did. From my limited experience it looks like terms and conditions are set by that team, seemingly on a case-to-case basis.

Thanks for that info - I've heard the same story from another developer at Flightsim.com. He thought they were vetting individual developers themselves, but from what you say it seems to me that they are co-ordinating 3rd party development as each section of the SDK is finalised - such as SimConnect, .mdl and .bgl compilers, which exist already as you've pointed out.

[Paraffin 2,197]

5 hours ago, A32xx said:

Here's a part of the Steam EULA for Dungeon Siege from Square Enix:

"You agree to only use the Game Software, or any part of it, in a manner that is consistent with this License and you SHALL NOT:

(f) reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, decompile, disassemble, or create derivative works of the Game Software, in whole or in part (except as the applicable law expressly permits, in which case all and any lawful modifications, adaptations, improvements, etc., and all copyrights and morale rights therein, shall be deemed assigned to, and shall belong to, vest in and be the exclusive property of Square Enix and/or its licensors on creation, in any event);"

Looks like the current standard boiler-plate to me. It's not 2006 any more...

That doesn't mean everyone is doing the same thing. Here's the XP11 EULA (from the Steam page link):

"Terms for X-Plane 11
You agree to use X-Plane for non-commercial purposes only. (See X-Plane.com/pro/ for information on professional licenses.)
You agree to not make copies of X-Plane.
You agree to not distribute the artwork from X-Plane, or any derivative thereof, without permission from Laminar Research.

Privacy Policy
Laminar Research can collect anonymous usage information at the user’s discretion. This option can be toggled off or on in the following places: the X-Plane installer, the Settings > General screen in X-Plane 11. Laminar Research will only collect usage information from users who have the checkbox enabled.
All information we collect is anonymous; it does not include contact information like your name or email address. We can never use the information collected to contact you in any way."

That's it, followed by a long, separate section that only covers use of the included Jeppesen data (not to be used outside the sim, etc.).

I suppose there might be some flexibility in what's considered the "artwork" from X-Plane (i.e. PlaneMaker content), but in practice over many years now, it's clear that they don't care what you do to develop freeware or payware products, which establishes a healthy 3rd party market. I'm sure DTG has reasons for having such a restrictive EULA, especially that part about automatically owning the rights to whatever is uploaded to the Workshop. But let's not pretend that every flight sim company is that restrictive.

I still want FSW to succeed for the sake of competition in the FS market, but I can't help but think their less open approach to freeware will have a direct impact on how much content we see for this sim.

[A32xx 129]

1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

I'm sure DTG has reasons for having such a restrictive EULA, especially that part about automatically owning the rights to whatever is uploaded to the Workshop.

My point was that the EULA is not necessarily DTG's, but Steam's, and gave an example of an EULA from another game which is also on Steam. If you Google Steam EULA you'll find plenty of others with the same clauses. I don't see anything restrictive about it and neither do the thousands of players (and modders) of all those games.

[Paraffin 2,197]

24 minutes ago, A32xx said:

My point was that the EULA is not necessarily DTG's, but Steam's, and gave an example of an EULA from another game which is also on Steam. If you Google Steam EULA you'll find plenty of others with the same clauses. I don't see anything restrictive about it and neither do the thousands of players (and modders) of all those games.

You don't see anything restrictive about the generic EULA you posted, or the DTG one, compared to the XP11 one I posted? That came from the Steam version, by the way.

One EULA is far more open and unrestricted than the others. 

[A32xx 129]

43 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

You don't see anything restrictive about the generic EULA you posted, or the DTG one, compared to the XP11 one I posted? That came from the Steam version, by the way.

One EULA is far more open and unrestricted than the others. 

The XP11 EULA you posted is the 3rd Party EULA agreement for the Jeppesen software which is included within X-Plane, but is not owned by Laminar Research, and has nothing to do with X-Plane itself.

[Paraffin 2,197]

10 minutes ago, A32xx said:

The XP11 EULA you posted is the 3rd Party EULA agreement for the Jeppesen software which is included within X-Plane, but is not owned by Laminar Research, and has nothing to do with X-Plane itself.

It's described as the X-Plane EULA on the Steam page where you buy the game. I don't think there is a separate EULA besides this one, but I'm happy to be corrected, if there is.

[A32xx 129]

6 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

It's described as the X-Plane EULA on the Steam page where you buy the game. I don't think there is a separate EULA besides this one, but I'm happy to be corrected, if there is.

The full title is:

Requires agreement to a 3rd-party EULA

X-Plane 11 EULA    <---- This is the link to the agreement for the use and ownership of the Jeppesen software included with X-Plane.

I think the actual X-Plane EULA will be installed with the program itself.