1 hour ago, Mitch24 said:

 

Thanks for the advice on PF3, but that program doesn't control your AI Traffic... so you are not really fixing the issue, just working around it. Are there any programs that also control the AI traffic to fly more realistic? 

Well, there are but they don't control it in a realistic way. Your best bet is to try AI Controller. That works with PF3 too.

1 hour ago, Mitch24 said:

Are there any programs that also control the AI traffic to fly more realistic? 

I've been recently talking a lot about it. I wish the folks at LM or Flight1 (UTL) came up with a set of tools that would be P3D built in or built into the UTL interface that would allow a certain set of options to control the traffic. I personally believe that ATC and AI in general are in need of a major revamp all together and I'm seriously hoping that someone will finally get this right. I am personally unable to get the AI Controller working in v4, but if someone was kind enough in guiding me how to do so, I'd be forever grateful. 

1 hour ago, Drumcode said:

I've been recently talking a lot about it. I wish the folks at LM or Flight1 (UTL) came up with a set of tools that would be P3D built in or built into the UTL interface that would allow a certain set of options to control the traffic. I personally believe that ATC and AI in general are in need of a major revamp all together and I'm seriously hoping that someone will finally get this right. I am personally unable to get the AI Controller working in v4, but if someone was kind enough in guiding me how to do so, I'd be forever grateful. 

I agree the ATC needs a whole re-vamping. After all, isn't this one of the core functions of a simulator, the ATC?? It's surprising to me how little Lockheed or other companies have paid attention to it. 

IMO theres been a number of fair attempts to do ATC over the years and they all are quite lacking simply because ATC is just too dynamic and when your dealing with programs, they're written in a linear fashion thats very scripted and if the flight plays out slightly different, the programs dont deal with it well. Just look at what should be a seemingly simple solution to AI seperation, yes I see constant go arounds, no matter what program ive used. Nothing can beat human decision and interaction.  Plus flying a STAR when theres not alot of traffic around is not very realistic at all, and on the flip side, when its super busy, all program ATC just doesnt deal with it well. 

The answer is online ATC like Vatsim and the like, but the huge con with that is the coverage, and for alot of people a psychological barrier to take part for numerous reasons. Myself included. But the more people that can do online ATC, the better the coverage should get, and more traffic thats real and live and reacts dynamically. 

I'll give Microsoft a big commend on their voices for ATC though. Albeit slow, no one has come close to the MS voices. Everyone else sounds robotic. 

That's an accurate summary post regarding  ATC. I have some additional minor points. Although AI  Controller 2.0 takes some work to set up, it seems to realistically "steer" the AI aircraft. The two "live AI" 3rd party options also produce lifelike airborne AI movement. Unfortunately, both both AIC2 and live AI, then the default  ATC communication doesn't work.

Only VOXATC  has the "correct" overall approach (albeit one with some quirks) of ditching both the default  AI control and the default ATC communications. Personally, I don't find the collection  of default Win 10 and 3rd party TTS voices to be that robotic and that's what Pilot2ATC and VOXATC both use. 

In any case, unless some 3rd party developer decides to sell a product like VOXATC, all remaining options will continue  to be suboptimal. But even the default AI/ATC in P3d is better than what's available  in any other sim. P3d has evolved into the minivan of flight sims. It more or less does everything  okay.

36 minutes ago, HighTowers said:

IMO theres been a number of fair attempts to do ATC over the years and they all are quite lacking simply because ATC is just too dynamic

There has, but none have attempted to completely re-vamp it. I don't believe that it can't be done, I mean, they made FSX 64- bit, everyone though that was impossible 5 years ago. 

 

Maybe a Traffic Program like Ultimate Traffic could tie in ATC with the Traffic? Like make it one-big traffic+atc add-on? 

The problem with an ATC programme is voices. I'm not talking about being robotic or not as that is frankly subjective. The problem is a. Just how many accents do you need and b. How many different phrases to be recorded. Both of these are finite in the sense that let's say 119 voices have been done but there may have been a few changes since so another 10-20 voices are recorded with the updated terminology. All that means is that you will of course mostly hear the 10-20 voices. As for cutting and pasting phrases into others to make something more correct in the case of PF3 it would in the region of 119 x 250 times. So easily something you could do before tea!!

And then of course how the programme runs. In what situation it says what. I would suggest one sets aside 3 years to get to a basic working model.

Been flight simming for 30 years now.  I used to get frustrated with the way ATC and AI behave in my flight sims.  Then I finally realized the raised blood pressure ain't worth it.

It's a SIM.  When it doesn't work "perfectly", just be the intelligent human being using the sim.  FAKE IT. 

Like someone else mentioned, if you don't want to wait in line, turn off your crash detection and taxi through them to the runway for takeoff.  Or if some AI jerk pilot is flying the same approach that YOU have been cleared for, run 'em over, fly through 'em, laugh it off.  Ain't nobody gonna lose a real pilot's license doing that in our sims.  And if the ATC controller cancels your clearance on final for "violating the rules", tough.  Let 'em.  Finish your landing.  Take whatever taxiway turnoff from the runway you want then.  Run over some more AI airplanes in your way on the way to your gate.  If you called the gate with GSX, those guys will still be there when you get there.  HAVE FUN!!!

Of course, it helps being over 60-years old doing the above things, 'cos by then you've earned the right to say, "Scr*w Them!!!"

11 minutes ago, FalconAF said:

Like someone else mentioned, if you don't want to wait in line, turn off your crash detection and taxi through them to the runway for takeoff.  

The problem with this, is that then the ATC will cancel your IFR Flight Plan because you weren't cleared for takeoff!

The default ATC won't let you fly a SID without canceling your clearance either (in many cases).  So...fake it again.  Once you get airborne, refile with ATC and they'll start working with you again.  Like this post is all about, it isn't "perfect" in so, so many different ways.

For now we need to wait for an adequate default ATC/AI system.

While we wait, I use Radar Contact 4.3 for ATC, and Super Traffic Board to help manage heavy traffic. 

2 hours ago, FalconAF said:

The default ATC won't let you fly a SID without canceling your clearance either (in many cases).  So...fake it again.  Once you get airborne, refile with ATC and they'll start working with you again.  Like this post is all about, it isn't "perfect" in so, so many different ways.

What I usually do is just ignore the ATC the entire flight except when landing again.. when I follow the PMDG SIDS, but you can only request a VFR landing.. but if the weather is only slightly bad the airport will be IFR only... uhhh

3 hours ago, FalconAF said:

Been flight simming for 30 years now.  I used to get frustrated with the way ATC and AI behave in my flight sims.  Then I finally realized the raised blood pressure ain't worth it.

It's a SIM.  When it doesn't work "perfectly", just be the intelligent human being using the sim.  FAKE IT. 

Like someone else mentioned, if you don't want to wait in line, turn off your crash detection and taxi through them to the runway for takeoff.  Or if some AI jerk pilot is flying the same approach that YOU have been cleared for, run 'em over, fly through 'em, laugh it off.  Ain't nobody gonna lose a real pilot's license doing that in our sims.  And if the ATC controller cancels your clearance on final for "violating the rules", tough.  Let 'em.  Finish your landing.  Take whatever taxiway turnoff from the runway you want then.  Run over some more AI airplanes in your way on the way to your gate.  If you called the gate with GSX, those guys will still be there when you get there.  HAVE FUN!!!

Of course, it helps being over 60-years old doing the above things, 'cos by then you've earned the right to say, "Scr*w Them!!!"

 +1 no headaches 

12 hours ago, Mitch24 said:

The problem with this, is that then the ATC will cancel your IFR Flight Plan because you weren't cleared for takeoff!

At least PF3 solves "that" problem!