Split Scimitars for the NGX

[Mitch24 194]

Hello, I do not yet own the PMDG NGX, but I am hoping to get it in the near future.

Does the NGX currently have split scimitars like in the real world? The pics on the website I don't see them. If not can we add them please, it's very unrealistic. 

Thank you!

-Mitch Young

[F16_Driver 25]

The NGX does not have scimitars currently. And it's not know if they are planned or not.

Also I don't see how it's unrealistic to not have them. The majority of NG's don't have them even if they are being rolled out in huge numbers.

[Mitch24 194]

5 minutes ago, F16_Driver said:

Also I don't see how it's unrealistic to not have them. The majority of NG's don't have them even if they are being rolled out in huge numbers.

Maybe outside of the U.S, however I just flew through Denver and literally all of United's 737's have them. 

-Mitch Young

[F16_Driver 25]

The vast majority is still non Scimitars, even in USA. I hope we get them, but PMDG hasn't announced anything.

[Mitch24 194]

5 minutes ago, F16_Driver said:

The vast majority is still non Scimitars, even in USA. 

OK, I must be hallucinating then...

[F16_Driver 25]

A relative small sample at Denver doesn't cover the whole 737 fleet in the USA, not even United's.

[JoeDiamond 67]

8 minutes ago, F16_Driver said:

A relative small sample at Denver doesn't cover the whole 737 fleet in the USA, not even United's.

Agreed.  Pass through an American hub and then tell me it's unrealistic.

[downscc 1,327]

The answer to "does currently have," is no.  Don't count on this being added as a cosmetic addon either.  In fact, since it is not a Boeing modification I'm not sure PMDG even has access to the data necessary to model the modification. So the answer to the next question is probably not.

[JRBarrett 3,034]

2 minutes ago, F16_Driver said:

A relative small sample at Denver doesn't cover the whole 737 fleet in the USA, not even United's.

I have been to Houston on business several times over the past three months, and stay at a hotel just south of the main entrance to IAH. The hotel is located right under the departure path of the two 15 runways. The 15's are the primary runways used for departures most of the time.

IAH is a major United hub, and I have watched dozens and dozens of their 737s on takeoff from my hotel. I don't recall seeing any that were NOT equipped with the split scimitar winglets. It appears to be fleet-wide for United.

[Mitch24 194]

20 minutes ago, F16_Driver said:

A relative small sample at Denver doesn't cover the whole 737 fleet in the USA, not even United's.

I also see them with Delta's 737's too...

 

Mitch Young

[Mitch24 194]

It's a good point that they are not on every 737, but they are def on a lot of them.

I wonder if it's something that would be made livery specific? Like with United?

[JRBarrett 3,034]

8 minutes ago, Mitch24 said:

I also see them with Delta's 737's too...

 

Mitch Young

The split scimitars would be nice as a visual cosmetic enhancement to the NGX line, since they are becoming widely adopted by at least some operators, but as others have pointed out, unless PMDG could obtain actual data on their aerodynamic effects, they would probably not change the character of the flight model in the sim.

[Chock 17,769]

As has been pointed out, it would require changes to the flight modeling, although the FMC does not differ on SSW-equipped aeroplanes, so that would remain unchanged. Nevertheless, APB Split Scimitar winglets add 294lbs to the weight of the aeroplane, which requires the wings and stringers to be strengthened (models fitted with the previous winglet types already have the necessary reinforcement). Ballast weight has to be added too, so the weight increase is more than that 294lbs of the winglets alone.

SSW's increase the 737's range by approximately 65 miles, which means they reduce fuel consumption by around two-three percent, but the savings of this nature tend to be at the higher end of these figures only on longer flights. But, it is a significant saving, when one considers how much it costs to fill up a 737 with fuel, however, it is not a saving which an airline would see right away, since even if the 737 which has SSWs added had the original winglets, thus making the conversion a bit cheaper since those aircraft already have the necessary strengthened stringers, with only the trailing edge wedge needing to be added, those new SSWs cost about 600,000 Dollars a set. This means you'd have to be planning on keeping your modified 737 for a while in order to reap the cost savings benefit, although since they also add value to the aircraft, it would also increase the sale value of the aeroplane when you did eventually sell it.

The addition of winglets does a few other things to an aeroplane too: It reduces the stall speed, reduces the required runway length for take offs and landings, improves the rate of climb, improves hot and high performance a little bit, increases the payload the aeroplane can carry and makes the aircraft a little bit more stable at high altitude. Most of these changes are not massive (typically they'd be about a 2-3 percent difference), but overall they would mean anyone simulating the aeroplane with those SSWswould have to consider the way they alter the performance of the 737 if they wanted their simulation of it to be accurate, and since the PMDG 737 is currently within about 5 percent of the real aeroplane's book figures, adding the winglets visually but not making any changes to the flight model would mean it would probably be no longer within that five percent margin of accuracy.

Another benefit which is not to be sniffed at, is that the new SSWs increase a passenger's perception of the aircraft being modern, thus even people who don't know what those winglets do still have a significant visual pointer to the fact that the aeroplane they are travelling on is one which is new and cool etc.

[Mitch24 194]

Thanks for your explanation, Chock. I would just like to see them for the visual aspect, I don't really care much about if they actually affect the PMDG flying at all..

[icemarkom 59]

33 minutes ago, Mitch24 said:

Thanks for your explanation, Chock. I would just like to see them for the visual aspect, I don't really care much about if they actually affect the PMDG flying at all..

 

Therein lies the rabbit. Many of simmers are in that boat. There is also that other group that couldn't care less about eye candy, and care more about realism, and accurate modeling. I for one am in the "wireframe is good enough" category, as long as systems, and behavior is modeled as accurately as possible, within the limits of the simulated environment.

 

There are many sim products there that tend to the eye candy customers, but I want to believe, PMDG is in the precision business... :-)