I'm through here

[jimmy64 43]

I used to really enjoy this space. It has been going down hill now for a few years and I have reached my limit. People can no longer start a topic or ask a question without being attacked very soon thereafter by people on another platform or those who may like a different product. Un-reprimanded trolling, and complaints about pricing have ruined these forums. I suppose that I'll have to get my news from Facebook and various other sources and join more developer forums. Those of you who are guilty know who you are, I'm certain of that. You'll probably attack me here from the safety of your living room. No worries. I won't see it.

[Jim Young 2,356]

We are trying to issue warnings and other disciplinary actions as fast as we can when we see them and we have.  Members can help us by clicking on the Report button in each post or topic and letting us know of the violation of the AVSIM Terms of Service or a violation of one of our policies. Reports go immediately to our Report Section which is monitored frequently by our volunteer moderators.  Trolling is certainly a major issue with any website and we have tools to warn violators.  Our Moderators cannot be everywhere all of the time as some of us have real jobs and families to support and our time is somewhat limited but we try.  In fact, this is one of the major discussions the moderators and I have been discussing in our private discussions.  I cannot promise we will take action in every case but we are well aware of the issue regarding personal attacks (or abusive behavior) and rants (trolling) in the P3D and X-Plane Forums.  It is a shame some of our members have decided to rant against one product or the other and attack our members.  I implore them to read our Terms of Service and abide by them during their visits to to this site.  We are trying to keep it under control while still allowing intelligent discussions and issues about each product.  A thin red line....

Best regards,

Jim

[vp49p3 216]

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:33 PM, Jim Young said:

We are trying to issue warnings and other disciplinary actions as fast as we can when we see them and we have.  Members can help us by clicking on the Report button in each post or topic and letting us know of the violation of the AVSIM Terms of Service or a violation of one of our policies. Reports go immediately to our Report Section which is monitored frequently by our volunteer moderators.  Trolling is certainly a major issue with any website and we have tools to warn violators.  Our Moderators cannot be everywhere all of the time as some of us have real jobs and families to support and our time is somewhat limited but we try.  In fact, this is one of the major discussions the moderators and I have been discussing in our private discussions.  I cannot promise we will take action in every case but we are well aware of the issue regarding personal attacks (or abusive behavior) and rants (trolling) in the P3D and X-Plane Forums.  It is a shame some of our members have decided to rant against one product or the other and attack our members.  I implore them to read our Terms of Service and abide by them during their visits to to this site.  We are trying to keep it under control while still allowing intelligent discussions and issues about each product.  A thin red line....

Best regards,

Jim

Jim

Thanks your efforts.  I very much appreciate them and those of the other AVSIM volunteers.  I think AVSIM's great.  The occasional rant or impoliteness is present in all walks of life and sometimes you just have to put up with it--AVSIM's no exception.  The value to the sim community imparted by AVSIM far outstrips the occasional unpleasantries we may endure from trolls.

Jay

[Jim Young 2,356]

Thanks for your kind comments Jay and understanding!

Best regards,

Jim

[Guest]

Hi James,

If you haven't already, use the Report option.  Trolling is a problem and it's a fine line of interpretation, for example in Apple's forums just about anything "negative" can be considered "trolling" and is often deleted (Apple has armies of paid moderators, AVSIM does not).  But we're aware of some members who go out of their way to get under people's skin ... it's sad see such behavior and that same behavior is all over the web.  

I mostly monitor the P3D forums and have seen an increased in "troll like" activity ... my personal take is that activity is a sad reflection of what is going on in a member's world.  All I can feel is sympathy for them, but for the most part I will avoid unless the violation is very obvious and doesn't walk the fine line.

But such activity isn't everyone, in fact it's really a minority of a few members.  Don't let the few control you because that's exactly what they are trying to accomplish.  Think of it like extremist/terrorist, they control entire populations/countries by simple use of fear with only handful of a few hundred people ... some here and all over the web operate at the very same level as terrorists (oh the irony).  The best thing you can do is stay and ignore them ... trust me ignoring them is best weapon you have against them, changing your patterns is a victory in their eyes.

Cheers, Rob.

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Jim,

I very definitely agree with your comments and support you wholeheartedly (mostly, always have) Thank you.

Jay, I disagree mildly (and i stress "mildly") with your comment "and sometimes you just have to put up with it - AVSIM is no exception" AVSIM could and should, become the exception and then ultimately the "norm" I can, however, understand where you are coming from.

I really do NOT believe we just have to put up with it  or should have to put up with it, and if anything verbal barbs and personal attacks constitute to a certain extent, assault and as such are probably illegal.  I do not believe that any attempt to stamp this behavior out completely is in any way misguided. 

As usual, this is MY opinion only and I do not wish to create any offence.

Regards to all and keep up the good work Jim

Tony Chilcott

[jimmy64 43]

Jim and Rob,

You guys are among the best. You're work here has not passed me by. The community should be very grateful for folks like yourselves who tirelessly give so much back to this hobby. I'm going to just give it a break for a minute. Should you see me back, it will be because of guys like you.

[Guest]

Yes, I highly encourage taking a break, we all do from time to time (except maybe Jim).

Cheers, Rob.

[himmelhorse 1,276]

James,

Sorry mate, I started replying to this topic in the post above and In my aged and feeble mind, I completely forgot that "you"  is what the post is really about.

Whilst I do understand and share your angst, I believe that if enough people support the cessation of this type of behavior, you have no reason for departure. I urge you to reconsider mainly because the majority of posts are actually reasonable, responsible and informative.  Personally, I have learnt so very much here and have actually been able to contribute to resolution of a few problems whilst being the recipient of so very much good advice.

However, the decision is yours, but I personally urge you to stay. Just think .... Your post could actually be the start of the end of this behavior. Worth thinking about and ...worth fighting for.

Regards

Tony

[Silicus 849]

James.

I agree what you are saying and if the numeric part of your username can be connected to your year of birth, we are about the same age :-).

There are a lot of immature folks around these halls no matter what age. But that's the problem of the internet - people hide behind their anonymity.

You going find 'harsh' environments all over the web, no matter where you go: Facebook etc. etc.

Filtering out and ignoring things is that best way to deal with it I find.

 

Cheers!

[busdriver 258]

Agree with the fact you should try and filter and ignore, otherwise your just letting them win. Frankly, I too have been shocked and put off by a number of posts, and the attitude of a few members. But, while they are arguing over nonsense, and playing with their "sim" the rest of us are flying real airplanes, or helping others enjoy this hobby. Don't let the few bad apples get you down. The vast majority of folks here are pretty amazing!

Hope you stick around!

[Skywolf 992]

Guys one option is to have paid memberships on the forum for all.  I know this will be controversial subject but all the points the op make are correct.  Trolling on the forums does hurt the hobby that we all love.

 We are already paying enough to buy addons and hardware and very small fee per year will reduce the headaches that many people have to go through with.

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

1 hour ago, Skywolf said:

Guys one option is to have paid memberships on the forum for all.  I know this will be controversial subject but all the points the op make are correct.  Trolling on the forums does hurt the hobby that we all love.

 We are already paying enough to buy addons and hardware and very small fee per year will reduce the headaches that many people have to go through with.

Don't think it would make much difference to be honest. Believe it or not, some people who are Avsim Donors get into trolling and controversial conversations as well. Some even get suspended and come back to troll even more.

The hard part about moderating these forums is that everyone has a different level of what they feel is tolerable, just as in real life, some folks are super sensitive, while others just brush it off and move on.

We try to maintain a fair and balanced forum where people can openly express themselves, but sometimes they can become over aggressive and we have to step in. Unfortunately we can't monitor all subjects and posts , hence the reason we sometimes rely on people to report posts that are against the rules or have become unruly or mean spirited.

I know that some FS related forums can go either way. One well known developer has a forum where posts are locked constantly and discussion is very limited and moderation appears heavy handed. Meanwhile, there is another popular FS developer who's forum is largely unmoderated and people barely stop short of telling each other to go kill themselves. It's tricky to try to find a happy medium where people can speak somewhat freely without offending one another and yet not lock every other post because someone is upset about a response.

[Gregg_Seipp 565]

4 hours ago, jimmy64 said:

You guys are among the best. You're work here has not passed me by. The community should be very grateful for folks like yourselves who tirelessly give so much back to this hobby. I'm going to just give it a break for a minute. Should you see me back, it will be because of guys like you.

James,

I've seen your posts in some threads...good and reasoned posts that I apprecieated.  I don't like it when I get trolled either and I avoid folks that do.  It surprises me that some of the more active members sometimes do it.  Yes, definitely use the Report button, the downvote when you feel someone's out of line and go to your preferences and hide members.  I've got one member hidden and, mentally it works.  I actually like them better now that they're hidden, strangely enough, and it makes AVSIM nicer.   Hang in there. 

Gregg

[Chock 17,769]

A problem with making something a paid membership, is that then you're going to get into people feeling they have a right not to be sanctioned because it is a service they would have paid for. You can imagine what a minefield that'd be for moderators to have to negotiate.

I certainly do agree however, that of late there are quite a lot of people who seem to get overly partisan on certain subjects, much of that being to do with the fact that we've got quite a few new simulators available and so people can get defensive about their choices, and as we've seen, offensive about those of other people.