Rob Ainscough

i9 7900X vs. i7 5960X - P3D V4 performance results 85% FPS increase

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A quick update:

Asus released a new BIOS/EFI very recently, version 0702.  From ASUS website:

Version 07022017/08/188.71 MBytes

PRIME X299-DELUXE BIOS 0702
1.Upgrade M.2 compatibility
2.Updated EC firmware
3.Upgrade DRAM compatibility and performance.
4.Update SKL-X CPU MicroCode

Note the last entry #4, this is VERY important.

I installed the latest BIOS and I'm now able to run Intel's Turbo Boost Max 3.0 (installed the latest drivers 1.0.0.32) without it causing blurry issues in P3D (so I no longer have to disable it) and it's no longer locking 2 cores at 100% when sitting idle at the desktop.

This BIOS rev 0702 has also allowed me to run my DDR4 RAM at higher frequency and I've been experimenting with core specific frequencies which is now working well.  I'm running Core 1 (1 based) at 5.0Ghz, and other cores at 4.8 to 4.7 ... for some reason ASUS put a * next to two cores, if I run these two cores at 4.7, the others at 4.8, and core 1 at 5.0 then my temps (CPU,VRM,PCH) are lower and stability is excellent.

So if anyone is struggling with Skylake X and X299 on Asus motherboards, install BIOS rev 0702 and enjoy. (https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-X299-DELUXE/HelpDesk_Download/)

Cheers, Rob. 

 

 

 

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Hello Rob !

I have a similar sytem like you, Intel Core i9 7900X, ASUS GTX 1080Ti, 32GB 3000MHz Gskill RGB Ram, 1TB M2 SSD Samsung on a ASUS PRIME X299-A Bord.
BIOS 0702 now

I like to confirm you results with P3Dv4, Turbo Boost Max 3.0 runs now better with P3Dv4 and the System is more stable. I do not OC my sytem, only the XMP profile is enabled.

CPU is cooled with a Corsair H 100i v2. CPU Temp, below 30C idle and up to 70C with P3Dv4 in use.

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Hello Rob,

Some tests say that the i9 7900x is worth than the i7 5960x in some games like Civilisation VI.

Do you think that the new achitectury of the memory cache is a disadvantage for  p3d ?

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21 minutes ago, supersym said:

Hello Rob,

Some tests say that the i9 7900x is worth than the i7 5960x in some games like Civilisation VI.

Do you think that the new achitectury of the memory cache is a disadvantage for  p3d ?

The title mentions 85% increase...

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4 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

A quick update:

Asus released a new BIOS/EFI very recently, version 0702.  From ASUS website:

Version 07022017/08/188.71 MBytes

PRIME X299-DELUXE BIOS 0702
1.Upgrade M.2 compatibility
2.Updated EC firmware
3.Upgrade DRAM compatibility and performance.
4.Update SKL-X CPU MicroCode

Note the last entry #4, this is VERY important.

I installed the latest BIOS and I'm now able to run Intel's Turbo Boost Max 3.0 (installed the latest drivers 1.0.0.32) without it causing blurry issues in P3D (so I no longer have to disable it) and it's no longer locking 2 cores at 100% when sitting idle at the desktop.

This BIOS rev 0702 has also allowed me to run my DDR4 RAM at higher frequency and I've been experimenting with core specific frequencies which is now working well.  I'm running Core 1 (1 based) at 5.0Ghz, and other cores at 4.8 to 4.7 ... for some reason ASUS put a * next to two cores, if I run these two cores at 4.7, the others at 4.8, and core 1 at 5.0 then my temps (CPU,VRM,PCH) are lower and stability is excellent.

So if anyone is struggling with Skylake X and X299 on Asus motherboards, install BIOS rev 0702 and enjoy. (https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-X299-DELUXE/HelpDesk_Download/)

Cheers, Rob. 

 

 

 

Thanks for keeping us informed.

Planning for a new simming computer this winter I wonder how the 8700K will perform with P3D compared to the 7900X.

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33 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Thanks for keeping us informed.

Planning for a new simming computer this winter I wonder how the 8700K will perform with P3D compared to the 7900X.

It's the other side of my previous question :wink:

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9 hours ago, loeb1 said:

I like to confirm you results with P3Dv4, Turbo Boost Max 3.0 runs now better with P3Dv4 and the System is more stable.

Not sure if this is a question or you're confirming my findings?  But yes, I can run with Turbo Boost Max 3.0 driver enabled and no CPU core contention issues ... but only after updating to BIOS rev 0702 and installing new chipset and Intel Turbo Boost Max 3.0 drivers (v1.0.0.1032).

Stability is better in terms of being able to run core 1 (1 based) at 5.0 Ghz with no AffinityMask this will be P3D's main Sync core which will get the brunt of the workload as it's responsible for sync'ing up all the threads on other cores for final render ... other cores will be running at 4.8 to 4.7Ghz.  Temps are lower and performance is very good.  The main sync core will need to run faster than the other cores since it has more work to do and it'll probably make for better timing and less contention.

But don't expect miracles ... you still need to manage graphics settings to match whatever add-ons being used, P3D, XP11, FSW are all capable of bringing FPS numbers down into the 14 range.

Cheers, Rob.

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10 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

 

  I'm running Core 1 (1 based) at 5.0Ghz, and other cores at 4.8 to 4.7 ... for some reason ASUS put a * next to two cores, if I run these two cores at 4.7, the others at 4.8, and core 1 at 5.0 then my temps (CPU,VRM,PCH) are lower and stability is excellent.

 

Cheers, Rob. 

Hi,

 

You got my attention there and a little of your topic but having Core 1-4 ratio in my ASUS BIOS i always have had it SYNC for all cores during overclock.

Now since we assume Core 0 is used the most by default i guess increasing the Ratio for that core would gain something ?

I tried from my usually I7-4770K@4.7 1.25V stabled to 49-48-45-45 instead and the temp dropped about 5degrees overall ??(58-69c) outside is 23c.

FPS about 1-2 better actually. Havent tested a flight yet (1.27V needed so far)

What about your cache ratio? Is this on Auto ?

Does it makes sence to you (the above)? Thanks

Michael Moe

 

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3 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

Hi,

 

You got my attention there and a little of your topic but having Core 1-4 ratio in my ASUS BIOS i always have had it SYNC for all cores during overclock.

Now since we assume Core 0 is used the most by default i guess increasing the Ratio for that core would gain something ?

I tried from my usually I7-4770K@4.7 1.25V stabled to 49-48-45-45 instead and the temp dropped about 5degrees overall ??(58-69c) outside is 23c.

FPS about 1-2 better actually. Havent tested a flight yet (1.27V needed so far)

What about your cache ratio? Is this on Auto ?

Does it makes sence to you (the above)? Thanks

Michael Moe

 

Smart thinking Michael.

I have a 5820K running at 4.3 Ghz HT on. Will do some tests with Core 0 at 4.5 Ghz and the others at 4.2 Ghz to see what that brings...

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3 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

What about your cache ratio? Is this on Auto ?

Cache ratio is currently on Auto ... I've tested with various values (increased) and wasn't able to determine any FPS difference ... it will however increase heat and if I go too high on core ratios will reduce system stability ... so leaving cache ratio at "auto" for now.

The primary core will always end up doing more work (this is true for XP11, FSW, or P3D ... haven't checked AF2) because it's responsible for thread synchronization which must happen for render pipeline or else nothing in the virtual world would make any logical sense if everything operated completely independent of each other.  So increase frequency of the primary core while lowering frequency of the "threaded" will have the benefit of less power/heat, increased stability without any sacrifice of performance. 

Cheers, Rob.

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13 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Not sure if this is a question or you're confirming my findings?  But yes, I can run with Turbo Boost Max 3.0 driver enabled and no CPU core contention issues ... but only after updating to BIOS rev 0702 and installing new chipset and Intel Turbo Boost Max 3.0 drivers (v1.0.0.1032).

Stability is better in terms of being able to run core 1 (1 based) at 5.0 Ghz with no AffinityMask this will be P3D's main Sync core which will get the brunt of the workload as it's responsible for sync'ing up all the threads on other cores for final render ... other cores will be running at 4.8 to 4.7Ghz.  Temps are lower and performance is very good.  The main sync core will need to run faster than the other cores since it has more work to do and it'll probably make for better timing and less contention.

But don't expect miracles ... you still need to manage graphics settings to match whatever add-ons being used, P3D, XP11, FSW are all capable of bringing FPS numbers down into the 14 range.

Cheers, Rob.

I mean your findings and my tests (sorry mistake in typing), but last evening I found out that the P3D main thread is moved in to Core 6 from Core 0, when I enable TB MAX 3.0 (no AM in CFG).

Can you confirm this too?  Today I will disable HT, to see how this will work now!

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11 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Cache ratio is currently on Auto ... I've tested with various values (increased) and wasn't able to determine any FPS difference ... it will however increase heat and if I go too high on core ratios will reduce system stability ... so leaving cache ratio at "auto" for now.

The primary core will always end up doing more work (this is true for XP11, FSW, or P3D ... haven't checked AF2) because it's responsible for thread synchronization which must happen for render pipeline or else nothing in the virtual world would make any logical sense if everything operated completely independent of each other.  So increase frequency of the primary core while lowering frequency of the "threaded" will have the benefit of less power/heat, increased stability without any sacrifice of performance. 

Cheers, Rob.

Something isn't making sense. Good thinking that the primary core must logically do more work on any multithreaded sim, but if the primary core is artificially sped it up it will just have to wait more for the other threads to execute on the slower cores. This will bring temperatures down, but the temperature/performance trade off should be identical to all cores running at the same speed no?

In other words you don't get something for nothing?

I could be wrong.

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7 hours ago, loeb1 said:

I found out that the P3D main thread is moved in to Core 6 from Core 0, when I enable TB MAX 3.0 (no AM in CFG)

This sounds like the early BIOS Turbo Boost Max bug to me ... it hasn't moved to Core 6, it just seems like that because Core 6 gets maxed out at 100% utilization per bug.

6 hours ago, glider1 said:

but if the primary core is artificially sped it up it will just have to wait more for the other threads to execute on the slower cores.

It's not "artificially" sped up, it's really operating at a faster frequency.  A good analogy is to think of it as one hand juggling 9 balls, the primary core is the hand and the other 9 balls are the execution threads running on the other cores.  In order for the hand to keep up it has to move faster (higher frequency) and throw the balls higher (slower return) in order to keep the juggling without dropping any balls.

I ran some more testing last night and was very pleased with the results, the cores frequency sequence was 50-48-48-47-48-48-47-48-48-48.

Video is in 4K, best to watch it full screen at 1440p or better but I tried to make text readable at 1080p (graphics settings at 3:44 min mark, TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=10 is also being used), BIOS settings at the end of the video (8 min mark ish).  I added text overlay to task manager cores to see their respective frequencies.  Core 1 is still working at 100% utilization (keep in mind I'm recording at 4K also so there is some core 1 utilization from that process).  I saw a peak CPU temp of 76C which is much lower than what I was seeing before with all cores at 5.0Ghz (around 90C peak).

I am puzzled when P3D V4 users claim cores are NOT being utilized, as you can see once one I starts moving thru the virtual world the terrain engine is clearly working very hard across all cores as expected.

Cheers, Rob.

 

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2 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

 it just seems like that because Core 6 gets maxed out at 100% utilization per bug.

exactly what I see. I will do some tests now !

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And about my Monitor, I use a ASUS ROG SWIFT PG348Q with HDMI at 50Hz and 3440x1440 resolution.

The DisplayPort with 100Hz is in use for my i7 7700K gaming PC, where I have 50fps+ in Motorsport games.

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