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i9 7900X vs. i7 5960X - P3D V4 performance results 85% FPS increase

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3 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Dit you see a 80%+ increase in framerate like Rob ?

Nothing near 80%, but I also did not do any objective tests, was between upgrading to P3D V4 and addons were all over the place. Sometimes I feel its the same, LOL.

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I do agree with you all that at single thread performance advantage is at Intel, but now the ball is on the developers field for the next period of time, the new 8700K will not bring extraordinary additional performance but new cores (single thread performance.. in the Cinebench is almost similar between 7900X, 8700K and 7700K). My i7 4790K @4.4 GHz with settings not far from the Rob's ones manage to maintain 30fps if I do not turn ON all the lights at once for my add-ons. 

Will be more up to the developers now to properly use the cores.

If developers will not really step in, then there will no big sense to go from 7700K to 8700K for example, right?

One additional point:  as I understood the AM4 will stay for more, while Intel policy is so bad now, Kaby Lake will not be compatible with the new Z370 and also Intel will have for Coffee Lake in the same year, 2018, the Z370 (facelift of Z270) followed by Z390 in 2nd half of the year...

That is what I am thinking.


Valentin Rusu

i9-7900X @4.5GHz (core 0 @4.8GHz), EVGA GTX 1080 TI FTW3, DDR4 32GB @3200MHz, Samsung 840 PRO Raid for Win 10 Pro, Samsung 960 PR0 512GB NVMe SSD for P3D v4.5

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3 hours ago, GSalden said:

you see a 80%+ increase in framerate like Rob

I probably should re-test now that I'm running my 7900X main core at 5Ghz and updated BIOS/EFI.  But keep in mind I'm comparing a 5960X X99 with a 7900X X299.  I have zero experience with the 4790K.

Cheers, Rob.

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1 hour ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I probably should re-test now that I'm running my 7900X main core at 5Ghz and updated BIOS/EFI.  But keep in mind I'm comparing a 5960X X99 with a 7900X X299.  I have zero experience with the 4790K.

Cheers, Rob.

A 5960x is more powerfull than a 4790 ..

I am still using my 5820K @ 4.3 Ghz and it is running well for more than 3 years now.

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Gerard

7940x ( 14 cores ) : 8 cores @ 4.8 - 6 cores @ 4.0 Ghz - Gigabyte X299 Gaming 7 - 32 Gb G.Skill Trident Z 3200Mhz Cl 14 - Gigabyte GTX 2080 TI Windforce OC @1920 Mhz - 1x SSD M2 1800/1800 2TB - 2x  Sata 600 SSD 500 Mb - Thermaltake Level 10 GT case - EKWB Extreme 240 liquid cooling set push/pull - 2x 43” Sony 4K tv's in NVSurround

8700K : all 6 cores @ 5.0 GHz - Asus ROG 370 - 16 Gb 4000 MHz @ 3600 Mhz - Gigabyte GTX 2080 Windforce OC @ 1900 Mhz - 1x SSD M2 1800/1800 2TB - 2x  Sata 600 SSD 500 Mb - 1x 55” Sony 4K tv

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9 hours ago, GSalden said:

A 5960x is more powerfull than a 4790 ..

I am still using my 5820K @ 4.3 Ghz and it is running well for more than 3 years now.

And i am on a 4770K which meens about 100% FPS boost moving to 7900X ?

Now that is an improvement - Hopefully next year the prices come down :cool:

 

Thanks

Michael Moe

 


Michael Moe

 

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Next year you can go for this: https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Intel-Core-i9-7980XE-18x-2-60GHz-So-2066-WOF_1174954.html and kick Robs bum :-)))))

 

 

;-)

Joking aside: The downside for us P3D people is that the core frequencies go down with the number of cores. And somehow we are still single core performance dependant. I am looking forward to see how P3D will performe with even more cores.


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18 Cores, 36 threads! My reaction is Intel's havin' a laugh or this is exposing an obvious weakness in their silicon roadmap. To me, never mind to what extent this beast can be overclocked to satisfy our requirements, more cores with more threads implies more heat (when overclocked) and more thread contention issues.

Assuming there are no real code changes in the foreseeable future and Prepar3D performance continues to depend on how well a single core can be overclocked then I'm betting the sweet spot for us is likely to lie between 6 and 10 cores with a max stable overclock of around 5GHz.

It seems far more likely that we should be looking at further GPU and memory developments for further performance gains. The CPU, IMHO, while clearly important in the grand performance equation, is rapidly becoming much less relevant as GPU technology marches on and Prepar3D evolves to exploit what potential that technology has to offer. Mind you the size and weight of these behemoths could soon become significant issues, if they aren't already. I have to employ my own unique solution to prevent the 1080Ti from sagging in its slot.

My fear is we may find ourselves stranded if Intel continues to use an ever increasing core count as a means of persuading (duping?) potential buyers into purchasing their exorbitantly priced multi-cored chips. Discontinuing earlier products could end up by presenting us with a real problem when we need to replace them for whatever reason and find our favoured models are no longer available.

However, these are only the musings of a rank amateur..LOL! Maybe I'm missing something. However, the inescapable fact is that 2.6GHz per core isn't going to satisfy our needs. Overclocking will be necessary and consequently efficient cooling solutions will become the order of the day.

And look at the price of the thing?!! As I said, they're havin' a laugh at our expense! One thing's certain, you won't catch me buying it. The i7-5960X was almost a step too far although I do have to say, once overclocked, it performs well and continues to deliver all that I need while partnered with NVIDIA's GTX 1080Ti.

Mike

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My rig: ASUS ROG Rampage V Extreme, i7-5960X (Dynamic OC 4.6 GHz - all cores, HT=ON, AM=21845), Corsair Hydro Series H110i GT Cooler with 2xNoctua NF-A14 PWM 140mm fans, G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4 3000, ASUS GTX 1080Ti ROG STRIX 11GB, GDDR5X (Driver versions: 441.66 (Win7), 452.06 (Win10)), Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD x4, Samsung 970 EVO 2TB V-NAND M.2, LG BH16NS40 16x SATA Internal BDRW, EVGA 1200 P2 Watt PSU, Cooler Master HAF X, ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q (G-Sync) monitor at 120Hz. Oculus Rift. Dual Boot: Windows 10 Pro 64bit (2004) / Prepar3D v5.0.31.35253, Windows 7 Pro 64bit / Prepar3D v4.5.12.30293.

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As Threadripper started this approach with more cores (at a good price) and Intel follows it, I expect that the developers will start that too now..

If they will not do it, then neither of Intel or AMD new processors will bring too much added value, right? What can you do with 16 cores of 1950x and 16 cores of the top i9 variants.. if they will not bring the SW at the HW level? This is also why I tend to believe that on a longer term a 1950x can be a better investment (or the Rzyen 1800, 1700) based on its price.

What 8700K will do probably, will make this transition for the main stream. You still have enough power for single thread performance  apps but also 2 cores more to help the streaming and additional tasks, as an example. Going in the future with many cores and high clock, well, more heat, more power consumption (which in the last years they tried to reduce it.. :D). So now they will lower the frequency in my opinion. And it can be seen, 8700K has now a lower base clock compared with the 7700K (the boost clock is higher for one core usage, but lower when for all 6 cores are using it).

So for now, it comes more to the apps and game developers.

 


Valentin Rusu

i9-7900X @4.5GHz (core 0 @4.8GHz), EVGA GTX 1080 TI FTW3, DDR4 32GB @3200MHz, Samsung 840 PRO Raid for Win 10 Pro, Samsung 960 PR0 512GB NVMe SSD for P3D v4.5

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There's still the FX-9590 around: 8 x 4.7 GHz with Turbo of 5.0 GHz. And that for just 140 EUR :biggrin:


System: i9 9900k@4.9 - 32 GB RAM - Aorus 1080ti --- Sim/Addons: P3D v5 with tons of Addons and 3rd Party Airports
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On 9/20/2017 at 8:33 AM, Michael Moe said:

And i am on a 4770K which meens about 100% FPS boost moving to 7900X ?

Now that is an improvement - Hopefully next year the prices come down :cool:

In August I changed my 4770K and bought the 7900X. Had to change the mobo, bought more and better RAM, etc. Also changed my 980Ti to an 1080Ti.
If I try to use the new CPU without overclocking (at 3.3) FPS is actually 20-25% lower compared to the 4770K (clocked at 4.5).
So I use the 7000X overclocked at 4.7 (with a nice water cooling solution) and I get the EXACT same FPS as I used to with the former setup.

I do not use HT, when I try HT, FPS remains the same, smoothness remains the same, only the temp is rising for the cores.

BUT: the overall experience is great, the sim (v4) has never been as smooth as it is now.
I think the tremendous FPS increase is just a myth in this regard...
 

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20 minutes ago, Potroh said:

In August I changed my 4770K and bought the 7900X. Had to change the mobo, bought more and better RAM, etc. Also changed my 980Ti to an 1080Ti.
If I try to use the new CPU without overclocking (at 3.3) FPS is actually 20-25% lower compared to the 4770K (clocked at 4.5).
So I use the 7000X overclocked at 4.7 (with a nice water cooling solution) and I get the EXACT same FPS as I used to with the former setup.

I do not use HT, when I try HT, FPS remains the same, smoothness remains the same, only the temp is rising for the cores.

BUT: the overall experience is great, the sim (v4) has never been as smooth as it is now.
I think the tremendous FPS increase is just a myth in this regard...
 

Interesting indeed :mellow: , Maybe Rob can chime in here ?

Seems odd that effectiveness single core is not increased/developed from I7-4770K to I9-7900X dont you ?

You must have got your self a schock there?:ohmy:

Thanks 

Michael Moe


Michael Moe

 

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28 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

Seems odd that effectiveness single core is not increased/developed from I7-4770K to I9-7900X dont you ?

You must have got your self a schock there?:ohmy:

 

No shock actually.
It's not really wise to straightly compare two CPUs, one with a 4.0 base clock and another with more than double quantity of cores but a 3.3 base-clock.

With a good water-cooling gear the 7900X can go much higher and it gives the needed and expected results but not as far as the mere FPS numbers go.

I think Rob's original enthusiasm was a bit exaggerated, although I never had his previous CPU, so can't really tell. (He is using 4K, 30 Hz monitor, etc., so the FPS increase may have been significant for him, of course only if the 7900X was significantly overclocked).

But the fact remains the same: there's no FPS increase with the 7900X compared to the 4770k and it is also logical, just because of the base-clock difference.

The very same thing can be said about the change from a 980Ti to the 1080Ti, as far as FPS goes, there is no change whatsoever, although it is once again a much smoother and better experience but it doesn't IF you measure the FPS and nothing else.

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On my i7-4790K @4.4Ghz, the 1080 TI FTW3 made the difference for the dynamic lights, that is clear. In terms of fps not so much normally, but as I play the P3D at 4K with almost constant 30 fps (30Hz set at my Asus 4K monitor) the GPU makes the difference.

So I find frustrating to pay 2000 euros for a new setup and get a few fps more. But once again, I consider now that the problem is more at the developers side. So we need to push them more instead of spending more money always on hardware to gain something. Yes, I know, P3D v4 looks clearly better but the frustration of smoothness and fps still remains. 

As I said, I am considering an 1950x, a 7900x or even a 8700K but I am still evaluating if this is really worth it.. even 7700K might be still a good variant. I do stress that LM should optimize or do more now.


Valentin Rusu

i9-7900X @4.5GHz (core 0 @4.8GHz), EVGA GTX 1080 TI FTW3, DDR4 32GB @3200MHz, Samsung 840 PRO Raid for Win 10 Pro, Samsung 960 PR0 512GB NVMe SSD for P3D v4.5

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5 hours ago, swiesma said:

Next year you can go for this: https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Intel-Core-i9-7980XE-18x-2-60GHz-So-2066-WOF_1174954.html and kick Robs bum :-)))))

;-)

Joking aside: The downside for us P3D people is that the core frequencies go down with the number of cores. And somehow we are still single core performance dependant. I am looking forward to see how P3D will performe with even more cores.

Exactly,  we should all hope that LM is working on spreading out the work on ALL cores and we can stop seeing the first core pegged at 100%.  I mean the whole point behind multi-threads is to actually take advantage of the technology and spread the load over all cores.  ( ie X-Plane)

I'm personally sticking with P3D over XP but am anticipating LM will get this right at some point. My 4790k @ 4.5 runs very good combined with a 1080Ti.  Once LM gets it right,  then I may consider an upgrade.   


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7980XE?:) I like the competition. It depends what AMD intended with their four 8-Core Dies (32 cores possible)... because they have 8 now on the Threadripper.

 


Valentin Rusu

i9-7900X @4.5GHz (core 0 @4.8GHz), EVGA GTX 1080 TI FTW3, DDR4 32GB @3200MHz, Samsung 840 PRO Raid for Win 10 Pro, Samsung 960 PR0 512GB NVMe SSD for P3D v4.5

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