Scenery configuration in P3Dv4

[downscc 1,327]

I don't think there is a problem with LM... if there is a problem is not understanding the method.  You can order things any way you want to with how you order the add-on.xml files and the order of the document folders containing those xml files.  Real simple rule, first read goes on top, next read goes on top of that.  Anything that needs to be below something else needs to be read before that other thing.  Simple.  Multiple addon components can be included in one add-on.xml file.  I have one file for each developer and one for the ole' Addon Scenery folder where we put stuff like AFCADs from Smith, and I have a Global add-on.xml for the scenery\world\scenery type of stuff.  The latter is the only addon component I have with a layer number specified (3).  You have complete control over the order of things.

[mawibo 33]

Hi Dan,

All very well, but that means that each and every user has to go and start manipulating folders, add-on.xml, add-on.cfg and scenery.cfg files. That's hardly user friendly I would say. I know how it works, but you cannot expect an ordinary user to do all of that. It's also very impractable for scenery publishers: you cannot make an installer that takes all of this into account.

Maarten

[ZLA Steve 370]

26 minutes ago, downscc said:

...if there is a problem it's not understanding the method.  You can order things any way you want to with how you order the add-on.xml files and the order of the document folders containing those xml files.  Real simple rule, first read goes on top, next read goes on top of that.  Anything that needs to be below something else needs to be read before that other thing.  Simple.  Multiple addon components can be included in one add-on.xml file... You have complete control over the order of things.

I am mirroring this in my setup and have completely jumped on board with the format. Not only is it simple (once you get the hang of it) but it will make updating each iteration of v4 a breeze. 

[theskyisthelimit 48]

33 minutes ago, downscc said:

 Multiple addon components can be included in one add-on.xml file.  I have one file for each developer and one for the ole' Addon Scenery folder where we put stuff like AFCADs from Smith, and I have a Global add-on.xml for the scenery\world\scenery type of stuff.  The latter is the only addon component I have with a layer number specified (3).  You have complete control over the order of things.

For your world/scenery bgl files.. i assume then.. for multiple vendors that have these files going in the world /scenery folder.. you are looping them all in one big custom scenery/world/scenery folder?

I think thats maybe where i differ.. as of now i have a different worldscenery for each vendor set to layer 3.. which i dont think will work.. i think i need t just make one single add-on.xml that covers all vendors scenery/world/scenery files in one shot with layer set to 3?

 

[downscc 1,327]

4 hours ago, theskyisthelimit said:

For your world/scenery bgl files.. i assume then.. for multiple vendors that have these files going in the world /scenery folder.. you are looping them all in one big custom scenery/world/scenery folder?

I think thats maybe where i differ.. as of now i have a different worldscenery for each vendor set to layer 3.. which i dont think will work.. i think i need t just make one single add-on.xml that covers all vendors scenery/world/scenery files in one shot with layer set to 3?

 

Quite the opposite, of the 80-90 sceneries I have installed only a few (less than 3) include stuff in the world/scenery folder... it is very manageable... more manageable than putting in the p3d\scenery\world folder in my opinion.  However, you can put multiple components that point to multiple scenery\world\scenery locations I guess.  This is what I do with FlyTampa who includes effects and simobjects\boats in a few of their products, which I put right alongside the rest of the FlyTampa locations and their Library all in the same add-on.xml.... there is not wrong way, but I think the best way is one that is easy to maintain.

 

[theskyisthelimit 48]

51 minutes ago, downscc said:

Quite the opposite, of the 80-90 sceneries I have installed only a few (less than 3) include stuff in the world/scenery folder... it is very manageable... more manageable than putting in the p3d\scenery\world folder in my opinion.  However, you can put multiple components that point to multiple scenery\world\scenery locations I guess.  This is what I do with FlyTampa who includes effects and simobjects\boats in a few of their products, which I put right alongside the rest of the FlyTampa locations and their Library all in the same add-on.xml.... there is not wrong way, but I think the best way is one that is easy to maintain.

 

Ok, so you are just dumping them into one single world/scenery folder then with a layer 3 setting?  I just figured that if they were separate, it wouldnt know what to do with 3 entries (for example) that all had layer 3 set.. i would think 2 of them could become 4, 5 etc, and it wouldnt work right as a world/scenery layer then.. hence i think ill just combine them all in one folder across vendors.

The other thing was on aircraft and the effects folders.. someone mentioned they ran into an issue installing aircraft with multiple effects folders (they werent dumping all aircraft into the same install path).. so they had multiple effects folders, some 55 or more and that seemed to be a limit.. 

How are you handling your aircraft again?  All in one big folder (so one effects folder for instance), or separate subfolders.. any known issues so far?  I only have 3-4 aircraft done so far, so too soon to tell, though i may redo and dump em all to the same install path.

[theskyisthelimit 48]

5 hours ago, ZLA Steve said:

I am mirroring this in my setup and have completely jumped on board with the format. Not only is it simple (once you get the hang of it) but it will make updating each iteration of v4 a breeze. 

The idea of dumping multiple addons into the same addon xml file makes sense in terms of layering by placement in the file.. however.. what happens when you have SceneryA which has say 5 components layered for that scenery, but SceneryB has his own xml file with his own components (ie: layers) in a certain order.. but SceneryB needs to go in a certain order above scenery A in order to see things correctly.. maybe i'm missing something here.. 

For now i've been brute force layering all xml addons one by one by moving them in the addon tool, but i guess ill redo with the component idea.. just curious how more complicated scenerios get handled.

[mdata 46]

Quote

Lord, I hope this situation gets straightened out.

Yes, LM need to sort this out. Reading the last seven posts and understanding the consequences when end user wants to add more and more addons just confirms that a unified tool / user interface is urgently needed.

Regards
Frank

[jeff20 52]

hi all

i for one am a little lost with all this

what i think we need is poppet

[downscc 1,327]

11 hours ago, theskyisthelimit said:

Ok, so you are just dumping them into one single world/scenery folder then with a layer 3 setting?  

I never said that.  Why do you think I said that?  Why this fascination with the world/scenery folder anyway... it rarely is used by addon developers and when it is it is usually an airport flattening polygon by itself in a bgl file.  Give me an example of what you are trying to do, a specific example please.

11 hours ago, theskyisthelimit said:

. what happens when you have SceneryA which has say 5 components layered for that scenery, but SceneryB has his own xml file with his own components (ie: layers) in a certain order.. but SceneryB needs to go in a certain order above scenery A in order to see things correctly.. maybe i'm missing something here.. 

You can do it anyway you want as long as you understand next component read goes on  top.  First of all you are creating a problem that doesn't exist, however there would be a solution if you gave me the specifics.  I cannot think of an addon scenery that has five components all requiring a certain layering.  The most "layering" I've run into so far is T2G LFPG latest where there is a Terrain layer below the airport scenery and a "layerup" layer as they call it that has to go above the airport layer:

	<AddOn.Component>
		<Name>LFPG Paris Charles de Gaulle - Terrain </Name>	
		<Category>Scenery</Category>
		<Path>D:\Addon\T2G\T2G - LFPG P3Dv3\data\LFPG-TERRAIN</Path>
	</AddOn.Component>
	<AddOn.Component>
		<Name>LFPG Paris Charles de Gaulle - Airport </Name>	
		<Category>Scenery</Category>
		<Path>D:\Addon\T2G\T2G - LFPG P3Dv3\data\LFPG</Path>
	</AddOn.Component>	
	<AddOn.Component>
		<Name>LFPG Paris Charles de Gaulle - Layerup</Name>
		<Category>Scenery</Category>
		<Path>D:\Addon\T2G\T2G - LFPG P3Dv3\data\LFPG-LAYERUP</Path>
	</AddOn.Component>	

Those three addon components add T2G LFPG to P3Dv4.  They share the same add-on.xml file with all other T2G sceneries that I have (9) and the order of each airport scenery in the add-on.xml file is irrelevant as long as each airport is kept together.  This is not hard, but the "what ifs" you guys are coming up with might reveal that you have not taken a look at it and given it a try.  Once you build a few add-on.xml files the light will go on and you will wonder why you ever thought it was difficult.

[theskyisthelimit 48]

38 minutes ago, downscc said:

I never said that.  Why do you think I said that?  Why this fascination with the world/scenery folder anyway... it rarely is used by addon developers and when it is it is usually an airport flattening polygon by itself in a bgl file.  Give me an example of what you are trying to do, a specific example please.

You can do it anyway you want as long as you understand next component read goes on  top.  First of all you are creating a problem that doesn't exist, however there would be a solution if you gave me the specifics.  I cannot think of an addon scenery that has five components all requiring a certain layering.  The most "layering" I've run into so far is T2G LFPG latest where there is a Terrain layer below the airport scenery and a "layerup" layer as they call it that has to go above the airport layer:

	<AddOn.Component>
		<Name>LFPG Paris Charles de Gaulle - Terrain </Name>	
		<Category>Scenery</Category>
		<Path>D:\Addon\T2G\T2G - LFPG P3Dv3\data\LFPG-TERRAIN</Path>
	</AddOn.Component>
	<AddOn.Component>
		<Name>LFPG Paris Charles de Gaulle - Airport </Name>	
		<Category>Scenery</Category>
		<Path>D:\Addon\T2G\T2G - LFPG P3Dv3\data\LFPG</Path>
	</AddOn.Component>	
	<AddOn.Component>
		<Name>LFPG Paris Charles de Gaulle - Layerup</Name>
		<Category>Scenery</Category>
		<Path>D:\Addon\T2G\T2G - LFPG P3Dv3\data\LFPG-LAYERUP</Path>
	</AddOn.Component>	

Those three addon components add T2G LFPG to P3Dv4.  They share the same add-on.xml file with all other T2G sceneries that I have (9) and the order of each airport scenery in the add-on.xml file is irrelevant as long as each airport is kept together.  This is not hard, but the "what ifs" you guys are coming up with might reveal that you have not taken a look at it and given it a try.  Once you build a few add-on.xml files the light will go on and you will wonder why you ever thought it was difficult.

On the world thing.. there are several examples out there that still dump files into world scenery.. typically the aerosoft us city x sceneries.. but i can get more specific.. the hawaiian photo real project has a few cases of needing files in the world/scenery folder.. http://hawaii-photoreal.com/downloads/

If you define several xml files that reference layer3 for the world/scenery example.. you end up with:

MiscWorldScenery 
Misc2WorldScenery
default scenery
base scenery 

So only the first one technically would be layer 3 if im understanding this correctly.. thats why i thought in these (yes rare) cases were world/scenery is needed, maybe dumping them all into the same custom folder and referencing that folder only once, guarantees they are layer3.

On the subject of using one xml file to arrange priority for the various scenery folders... (this one requires many components, of scenery, in a certain order)

I tried to do this multiple component in the same xml file for this hawaiian area in particular.. and its not working.  In several ways its not working.. even with information.cfg i cant get p3d to show the pop up that says to activate the new addon.. if you use lordy's tool.. it doesnt show up as in the picklist to even edit..  I basically took the blank xml template and tried it with a few "layers" for various scenery folders from this set.  It might be i'm just missing something, unsure.  If you use the addon organizer tool and create new.. it asks to pick a scenery folder each time.. so given that... i'm not sure how you make sub components to the same scenery that already has to have a scenery folder defined.  

Something like this:

  <AddOn.Name>Hawaii Photo Group</AddOn.Name>
  <AddOn.Description />
<AddOn.Component>
    <Category>Scenery</Category>
    <Path>V:\P3D Addons\Scenery\USA\Hawaii\FSXrdr_Windsock</Path>
    <Name>Hawaii-Windsock</Name>
  </AddOn.Component>

<AddOn.Component>
    <Category>Scenery</Category>
    <Path>V:\P3D Addons\Scenery\USA\Hawaii\MolokiniCrater1</Path>
    <Name>Hawaii-Molokini Crater</Name>

 </AddOn.Component>

I'm not sure why this isnt working or prompting or showing up for me.. assuming its correct in structure (i left out the start/ending tags/areas etc)

 

I think originally when i meant how do you arrange certain areas without this getting messy and assigning layers.. i was thinking more on a global picture for the entire scenery library, not specific to one region (like say this hawaii project).. maybe i mistakenly figured anything with a certain designation should always appear at a certain point in the scenery.cfg structure.. but i guess as long as it is at a certain point within a group then it may be ok.. at least until you add another airport to the mix and forget to include it in the group and things get out of order.

[downscc 1,327]

I cannot set up my add-on.xml files and use the Lordy tool, it has to be one or the other.  The Lordy tool will create entries in the add-on.cfg file located in appdata which overrides the auto discovery feature that P3D uses to prompt for new entries in the documents addon folders.  This approach is in the SDK and works but I prefer to only work within the documents addon folder and leave the other various configuration files alone.  Once P3D has prompted to addon a documents addon folder which contains an add-on.xml file and you accept the addon, then any changes to the add-on.xml are automatically recognized.  Every time P3D starts it surveys the addons and updates an scenery add-on.cfg file in program data.  You can peek into that file to see exactly what P3D is loading.

As far as multiple sceneries in the same add-on.xml I can assure you it works.  All my FSDT are in one add-on.xml including the bglmanx.exe addon component.  All my FlyTampa are in one including the library.  I can go into any one of those and add a new airport, or remove one, and the change is automatically picked up by P3D without any further user input.

[vgbaron 3,503]

I think you're overthinking this. The majority of the sceneries that use World just put a few bgl files in there. I created a base layer at 3( like Lorby) and when something is needed to be in World - I add it to my base layer.

Other scenery entries I just adjust manually, usually using Lorby's tool. 

I find the xml method a whole bunch easier than the old way. Once LM makes it MANDATORY and there are no "mixed" entries, it will all fall into place.

With some of the testing I do I've unfortunately had to do several reinstalls of V4 and the add-on.xml makes it a snap.

Vic

[theskyisthelimit 48]

18 minutes ago, downscc said:

I cannot set up my add-on.xml files and use the Lordy tool, it has to be one or the other.  The Lordy tool will create entries in the add-on.cfg file located in appdata which overrides the auto discovery feature that P3D uses to prompt for new entries in the documents addon folders.  This approach is in the SDK and works but I prefer to only work within the documents addon folder and leave the other various configuration files alone.  Once P3D has prompted to addon a documents addon folder which contains an add-on.xml file and you accept the addon, then any changes to the add-on.xml are automatically recognized.  Every time P3D starts it surveys the addons and updates an scenery add-on.cfg file in program data.  You can peek into that file to see exactly what P3D is loading.

As far as multiple sceneries in the same add-on.xml I can assure you it works.  All my FSDT are in one add-on.xml including the bglmanx.exe addon component.  All my FlyTampa are in one including the library.  I can go into any one of those and add a new airport, or remove one, and the change is automatically picked up by P3D without any further user input.

Ok, then i guess maybe this is why the grouping xml i made isnt showing up.  I tried to manually add the reference to its folder in my documents in that add-on.cfg file.. but despite this its not showing up in the sim when i view the addon listing.   EDIT: i had an error in the cfg file entry which i manually added to the add-on.cfg.. now it shows up in the tool.

So the questions would be.. how do I either undo the Lorby Tool so auto detection works.. or how do i use his tool to "find" the new xml file that i made so it can be added to the list.  (or why is the add-on.cfg not working despite my manual addition of the new entry).

(I also noticed if i rename add-on.xml for a given old entry to add-on.xml.bak, to try to disable it.. p3d still thinks its an addon and it still shows up under the add-ons within p3d's menu).

[theskyisthelimit 48]

5 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

I think you're overthinking this. The majority of the sceneries that use World just put a few bgl files in there. I created a base layer at 3( like Lorby) and when something is needed to be in World - I add it to my base layer.

 

I probably am just over thinking this.. ill keep this part simple from here forward.