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N562Z

What is happening with payware?

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>Am I charging for all of this? Nope.Great, fantastic, we, the users do appreciate your efforts, but not if we have to defer to you every time we use them.I have nothing but admiration for freeware producers, but little time for those that want to play thier own bugle in the name of freeware.This post has never been about payware vs freeware, despite the efforts of those with their own agendas. It is about the responsibility of the payware producers in relation to their customers.


Scott
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OMG..."SYSOP". I haven't heard that term in years. :-violin Those were the days.


Jeff D. Nielsen (KMCI)

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Guest Kingair315

Hi, Congratulatons on Your Project! Will be watching for its release, I enjoy flying in the WA & OR area.As I fly only GA aircraft, low and slow enough to enjoy the scenery makes the flight sim more pleasureable for me. There are still lots of Hobbyists creating Addons and not charging. A decade ago, I created a lot of airports for S.CA, they changed the version on me, rendering them useless. By that time a few others began creating S.CA airports, and did a much better job, similar to what it sounds like you are doing... My attitude, was that Id done the work for myself, and enjoyed passing the time creating them, why not share them with others who were helping me learn to fly. By making them available to others to enjoy, it made the project time I'd spent make more sense. Over the decades the FS has been available, thousands have created free addon's, those who use them appreciate the time spent. Some dont have the talent or time, and instead spend a lot of time in the forums giving helpful hints or tips about flying, etc. That is also of a great deal of value to the FS Community. Some complain about the payware, to me that makes no sense. If you dont like the price or cant afford it, just download the HUNDREDS of freeware aircraft, and scenery packages available. TO me how a plane looks, is not as important as how it handles... and there are LOTS of excellent FREEWARE aircraft available, more than most have time to fly. Thanks in advance for your contribution... Bob

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Guest Kingair315

>How many times>have you had to re-install FS for what ever reason and then>many times the addons as well. Re-validate your lisence or>key, send an email to get a new one and if that wasn't bad>enough there's sp1, sp2, update 1.5, 2.0, 2.1, 2.3. Tweak this>and configure that all in the persuit of perfection. Where do>I find the time to actually fly ? Some I'm sure like all this>tweaking and fiddling. I do not ! On my current computer system Ive had FS2000, FS2002, and FS2004... & have Never spent any time tweaking or configuring the Flight SIM. Waiting before buying any Payware, until I see what the general reaction is too it, good or bad. Adding only freeware from those who have established reputations for good work, etc..Not once have I ever had to reinstall any of these versions, and dont believe anyone would have to, if they spent a couple of hours a week learning how to maintain their system. Lots of help on CNET. Keeping a system free from adware, spyware, junk files, a clean registry, and defragging once a week, or after any time you add software... NOW, I just use Diskeeper to defrag, which defrags the system whenever the screen saver is running. You set it, and forget it. Most important, running a registry cleaner (freeware regcleaner or CCleaner) each time you remove any program, addon, even small things like removing several JPG files, can leave invalid entries in the registry. The more you have, the slower the system gets, and the more errors you have. First time I ran regcleaner, it found 267 invalid entries. A friend found over 1200 of them the first time he ran it. His computer ran like a brand new one afterwards.

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Guest Kingair315

You make a lot of good points... and anyone much over the age of consent knows that most locks are only to keep honest people honest, as the saying goes. Long ago when programmers first began trying to put copy protection into programs, hackers who did not even want to use it, took it as a -challange- to break the code. Watching this for few decades, Ive come to the conclusion that those who will buy software, will buy it and be happy to pay for it. That those who do not want to buy it, will -never- buy it, at any price. Now, Ive also known of those who download any hacked software, with hard drives filled with it, tried it once or twice, and never used it again. Its just taking up space on their drives, and they wonder why their system has all kinds of problems. To them it was the idea that they could get it "free" which appealed to them, not that it was something they really wanted or needed to use. Some of the stuff they downloaded, was not even as good as freeware available for the taking. But, because it was free anyway, it didnt even appeal to them. Ive seen almost a dozen people who spent most all their time on the computer, just downloading free stuff, and never really using the computer for anything of value. Ive also known of many honest people, who downloaded a demo or even hacked versions, used it, liked it, and then purchased a legal copy. One who recently bought Photoshop.CS after getting a copy of Photoshop V7... The guy he got it from, used it a few times, and never used it since. Thus, Adobe made a sale, they may never have made otherwise. If programmers put time they spend on protection, into making the program much better, they would sell a lot more copies. Their reputation for quality would quickly spread in the forums, and people who hate all the problems created by protection causes who dont buy it, would buy it. The positive comments in these forums about good software, are the best FREE ADVERTISING a company can get. Bet it sells more copies than ads do. I know that I never have bought an addon from hyped ads on websites or in email and that every item Ive bought, has been one which the MAJORITY praise in the forums.

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Guest Will__UK

B777ER, you need to get a grip of yourself and read my posting I've left for you on our forum. You didn't know all the facts, so i've now told you.If you can't have patience and understanding like "most" people on this planet, god help you.You've made your point and so have I. Live with it! End of matter.

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Ah yes, the good ol' days. I ran the CapeNet on Cape Cod from 1983 until 1987 when I moved it to Central Virginia and it became the Virginia Information Network (VINE). Ran the MajorBBS on an eight line system. Shut it down about the same time you did, 1996.

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Guest Kingair315

>Personally, I find it rather ridiculous to suggest>this is the case when $50 won't net you more than an hour >in a real plane, or barely a single dinner out and a movie. Boy have you got it good, you cant get an hour in a real plane in this area for $50... Many using the FS though are retired on Social Security, and are not flying any longer or even going out for dinner and a movie. Too many other things more important, so we just go without, the same way I do without any addon that costs even close to that. Will baby my computer also, as it is the last one that I'll ever purchase. When I was working, frequently bought addon's, now I get only one or two a year, and am very particular about what I spend the money on. Last aircraft I purchased was PMDG B1900, Eaglesoft's Citation X, and Bill Lyons WACO when he was selling it instead of giving it away. So have my own Hanger, with my name on it. . . As I flew a WACO a few times in Sedona, AZ, I can relive those flights daily, and never get tired of it. All three of them are fantastic, and get me anywhere I want to go, just the way I want. We can only fly one aircraft at a time, adding dozens of aircraft, even freeware to the flight sim, just drastically slows down frame rates. Keep the Shiny Side Up!

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>Ah yes, the good ol' days. I ran the CapeNet on Cape Cod from>1983 until 1987 when I moved it to Central Virginia and it>became the Virginia Information Network (VINE). Ran the>MajorBBS on an eight line system. Shut it down about the same>time you did, 1996. ahhhh, the ol BBS systems...brings a tear to my eyes seems so long ago....the year was 1983....i was only 18....know where youd find me most of the time?....dialing 10 times a day into those Match-Dating systems :-))))...must have gotten a date per month using those services, hehehe...i had so much fun i ended up running my own BBS for a short time!That was pretty much the begining of my love affair with PC's...i started with an Apple 2C...those really were the days.Dave Kalin

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I for one, really appreciate the work such as yours, and if it is freeware, maybe you could have a contributiion line for your favorite cause, I believe many of us who get great programs feel a reponcibility to respond in some fashion, ususally an amount similar to what other programs are charging...........PS, how will we know where or when this comes to being?? Regards RRL

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I understand the files for the CD were sent for production on Friday and themanual and any other documentation has already been printed.So, couple of weeks I guess.Dreamfleet Project ManagerGreatest Airliners - DC-8Greatest Airliners - 727 Whisperjethttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg


Cheers

 

Paul Golding

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I tend to be reluctant to respond to these threads which often seem to generate more heat than light. However, here goes:PRICEPrice is determined by the market - that is, what we as purchasers are prepared to pay. Producers, generally, don't hold us up in the street and take money from our pockets. A producer can set any price he choses and we, as consumers, can decide whether we are prepared to pay that price or not. But if the producer gets it wrong he's unlikely to be in business long. That's a risk all businesses take.Cost of production is generally irrelevant to pricing. Given the price is set by the market, cost determines if a producer makes a profit or not.Complaining because something's not affordable and should be cheaper shows a lack of understanding of the market. A Rolls Royce car isn't affordable to me so I make do with a Ford. I don't complain and expect Rolls Royce to offer a car I can afford.I think the question of trial versions comes into this category. If enough consumers refused to buy an add-ons unless they had trial versions then there'd be lots of trial versions. As long as consumers are prepared to buy without trial versions then why should producers provide them.PAYWARE DEVELOPERSI believe that there is merit in the argument that some payware producers haven't quite understood what they've got themselves into once they start to charge for their products. They are entering a totally different environment and, as well as being subject to the standards customers expect once they've bought a product, are also subject to a whole range of legislation - many of which is ignored, presumably because they are unaware of it. Most people believe that once they've spent money's on a product then it should meet certain standards. If they're not met I, for one, can't accept the excuse that the producer's a small organisation and can't afford to do it. If it can't, it shouldn't be in business.As an example, several payware developers offer support forums, then let their customers effectively run them - presumably because they don't want to meet the cost of providing support themselves. The result is often pretty offensive replies, usually starting with the assumption that it must be the customer or his PC's fault and then going from bad to worse. All of which reflects badly on the producer as long as it allows those sort of responses in its forum . Would anyone accept that when having problems with any other product?In the end, of course, it is down to market forces. As long as consumers will accept inferior service, producers will offer it.

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Thanks for the good news!Will reserve a copy with my local distributor ASAP.


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FS for XBOX would be nothing, but an arcade-style game, because with no add-ons and support for 3rd party hardware that's what we would end up with. If that would be the case, I'd quit flightsimming altogether.FS fortunately always pushes the boundaries of the PC limitations and any console is already outdated by the time it hits the shelves. Your PC can be updated, your XBOX will end up on eBay or in the trash after 3 years. But that's all another discussion.Pat

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Example: The PMDG 737 series has kept me busy for almost a year for a pricetag of $40. I pay the same for a night out at the bar and that experience is usually gone after a few hours.A student can hardly afford $300 for rent, but decides to pay $3000 for a new HiDef TV. It is a nightmare for those socio-ecomonic marketing experts. It's all about value, desire and hype.The overall quality from the reputable developers is usually excellent, but it is the constant complaining, whining and "knowing it all" from some sour grapes in this community that makes payware a lose-lose situation for developers. Latest example is the release of a relatively new product: Do not release a patch and get virtually ambushed to release the patch. Release 6 service packs within two months and people complain about "too much patches".If a developer won't not include the latest "bling" and high-def graphics, you feel the wrath of the hardcore simmers with their Athlon FX setups. If you do, get complaints from the casual simmer that their machine is not able to handle it.Talking about bugs: Bugs happen, are inevitable and become progressively more apparent due to much shorter development cycles and the increasing complexity of the add-ons. I can't tell you one program on my computer without patches, service packs or updates. That's the way it works nowadays. A PC is not a gaming console with unified hardware (or software).Pat

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