What is happening with payware?

[Guest Will__UK]

Patrick you've made a good selection of points there.With myself being the main scenery developer (modeller) for OSS for many years now, you always get the odd person who complains, but you also get people who complain about things too much - like they haven't got anything else in their life to keep them busy!To be a developer of detailed scenery and a/c requires lots of hard work, whether it's freeware or payware, but what everyone doesn't actually realise is what would you all do if us developers packed up our bags and didn't create any 3rd party addons at all? ... I think MORE people would complain. How ever you look at it, there's always going to be unhappy people.I try to not get involved in reading into these topics too much as it's mainly negative stuff all the way.I got into 3rd party addon's as a general interest ("if you think you can do better, do it!" .. was my attitude).What I do know is I've made lots of people happy, kept them busy with new sceneries, and generally made FS better and more realistic!Cheers.

[boshar 6]

Not neccesarily, the biggest plus of a console version would be the fact that it will be made to fit the hardware. So the developer could make an FS that has a constant 30 or even 60 fps.The X-Box already has a online worldwide network. This network is used to sell small standalone games. There is no reeason to rule out FS add-ons distributed via this network.3rd party hardware? You would lose the special stuff but a flightstick, throttle, pedals and a yoke are easy to make. Just a small adjustment from the current PC hardware.The biggest difference is that a XBox360 release would be optimized for that hardware. The PC version would be optimesed to run on high-end PC's that ar not even available. If a XBox 360 version would include the flightmoddeling on par with current FS9 add-on planes it would be an instant buy for me.

[Guest Kingair315]

Personally, I never complain about Bugs... Those who have been using computers since the 70's know how much improvement there has been. Like paying $1200 for an accounting program, that was updated with patches, new versions, etc for two years, and it never did workl. The company finally went bankrupt and those who bought it lost all their money ... To me, it is like a miracle that the software works so well. Especially addons, where they have virtually no control over what MS does or does not do, and when a new version is brought out with major changes, I dont even expect an update... But, those like Justin from FSGenesis, bring out updates for new versions which actually amaze me with their quality. The Freeware addon authors like Mike Stone or Chuck Dome, and others of similar quality just keep on working their miracles. There are always too many complaints about the little things, and very little thanks for the 94% Plus that works better than anything the majority could create... Authors can focus on the few compliments, knowing for everyone who complains, there are hundreds who are totally satisfied, who seldom speak up. Just because we complain sometimes - does not mean we are totally dissatisfied ... However I believe more positive feedback would motivate both Freeware and Payware Authors....Ive always found, if you complain, to finish off that communication with a positive note, and that it gets much faster results or solutions. Bob

[bkeske 0]

Yaaawn.You know, any good and reputable third party designer has a 30 day money back guarantee, or, if you have a problem I'm sure they would listen to your concern...all you have to do is ask the designer first if this is unclear. In fact, I believe anyone *with a good enough reason*, can get their money returned via the popular wrapper available thru one well known source.Bottom line, it is my duty to do my homework prior to shelling out money for any add-on, regardless of price, while weighing the benefit of my enjoyment vs. money spent.I really do not understand the problem here...this isn't FS5 anymore, for better or worse. IMO, it is better, and I have spent much more than the cost of FS9 on all 'my stuff'...and could not be happier. Heck, the Reality gauges in most my aircraft were more expensive than the payware aircraft itself! I ain't complaining either.As they say "stay with the winners".

[B777ER 2,484]

I am flaming you by asking why it has taken a year to release one scenery package? You consider that a flame? Unreal. In that case, I never will have the need to visit your forum again. I have never seen you publicly address your slow down issues. Please point me to that so I can read it.

[B777ER 2,484]

Fair enough sir. I however cannot read it as Jeff has not allowed me back into the forum due to my questioning of the year long development cycle.

[Guest Will__UK]

Yeah I saw that too.To cut a long story short, there were just myself and Oli working on scenery projects, mostly every evening or day for 2-3 years and we eventually had enough of it all, as we want to have a life outside doing "work". FS designing was becoming a full time job on top of a day job. I understand your frustration but we had no choice in the matter as we had lost interest.I now do the "odd" bit of designing (note the Gatwick update), say a few hours every fortnight - a contrast to before.We handed it over to Sean, who has a busy day job and family to consider. Myself and Oli worked much more often on these projects to keep them moving (Gatwick and Shoreham each took over a year to make), so it's down to how much free time Sean has.FS designing is a "hobby", so I thought I'd make that clear, even if it's so easy for it to become another full time job.When taking all these factors into account, this is why scenery designing/aircraft development takes as long as it does, as we have lives outside our hobby. By working solid for a LOOOONG period of time, this is the result.It will be done when one has the time to finish it off, as it's only Sean working on it now as far as i'm aware.I think the best thing for you would be to actually try doing it yourself, in the same level of detail and then you'll realise exactly how long things take, patience, dedication and hard work. That's the only way people will ever learn.That's the story of KMCI.

[B777ER 2,484]

Well, thanks for the explanation. That goes a long way in shutting me up! All I ever saw in the OSS forum was comments like..it won't be too long now and within a couple months. I hope you can understand that when you read things like that for a year..it can get tiring and old. I for one don't blame you at all for burning out on it. Now that I know the real story..I will keep quiet about the release date.

[Guest Will__UK]

Thanks for the understanding. Of course I'd like to see it complete too, but I had enough of working solid as I was before.... think of it as "behind the scenes of the developer", it's not all fun and enjoyment. I loved making Gatwick and Shoreham because they're local to me here (fly from Shoreham, work right next to Gatwick), but KMCI is far away so the level of interest isn't as great.I think for a developer to have a real keen interest in a project, they need to be physically involved with travelling to the airport themselves at least, so they feel apart of the real thing. It would be too costly to go to Kansas just because of this though lol :D. ... that's my opinion anyway.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

Will's lack of motivation was only about 1/10th of the problem.If you had bothered to read the forums more you would have seen other explanations, such as the fact that the mail system took almost 2 months for us to get the source files back to the US; the fact that some of the other designers were either fighting the war on terror, or having babies, or us updating the scenery to reflect the new construction at KCI which meant more trips out to the airfield, or us breaking in a new texture artist who was also trying to help out on 4 other projects; us having to adjust personel on projects; those personel also taking out time to program the new server, email system, web site, etc., etc., etc.We are going to make a real business out of this here real soon and we'll keep making the required adjustments until I feel we're on the right track, not when you feel I'm on the right track.The fact is we were/are just as mad about the slow down as everyone else and we took corrective measures which took alot of time. That also prompted the new policy about announcing new products. Now you won't get previews until a few weeks from release. The forums are going to start becoming more about support and less about whiners like you thinking they deserver an explanation. You want a job, apply for one. I got lots of stuff for you to do.Your mouth and your bad attitude is what got you suspended from our forums. I don't give out anything to people when they are like that. Thankfully it's only happened about twice now in all the time we've been in business.So when you change your attitude, then maybe I'll change mine. Until then I won't subject my developers or myself, for that matter, to having to explain ourselves to someone like you.If you don't approve, then too bad. You can talk about the release date all you want, and I can too.Have a good one.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

Actually, it's Sean, Gary, Terence, Colin, and Thjis. And they've been up working for 24-7 during the last week to not only get KCI finished but the 3 others right behind it.There is actually a sense of urgency here at OSS folks, don't get confused.

[N562Z 4]

Mitch::-lol :-lol :-lol :-lol :-lol !!!!http://www.graphics-free.com/animations/tr...ges/plane_6.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

[N562Z 4]

Boshar has hit on something here I think: complexity. Complex relationships, complex computers, complex software - Sometimes, don't you just get tired of it all? I digress, and I'm not even Catholic, but I read, when Pope John Paul died, there was hardly anything to disseminate in his will because he didn't really own anything. Amazing, the simplicity.FMC's are as interesting to me as any flightsimmer, and I admit I am as much of tweaker as any true simmer. But when I have to get into reprogramming my computer with FSUIPC just so I can program another computer, and a FAKE one at that, it seems a bit much, almost comical. I like that MS has taken the time to develop an autopilot in their aircraft that some developers still find good enough, so that I can pour a glass of ShotFire Shiraz, fire up FS9, load a flight plan, jump into the virtual left seat of my desk and use my very immersive GoFlight hardware as is, in front of the same 19" monitor my wife uses to sell baby clothes on eBay, in a dark room on the second story of a house in a quiet suburb of Baltimore to make it feel, even for just an hour or two, as though I was PIC of a 100-ton jetliner screaming over the Australian country-side. Some payware developers have hit on this idea, maintaining high quality, while embracing simplicity - Carenado, a recent example for me, but there are many others, we know who they are, it shows. For me its all about that feeling: That utter, child-like fascination and pure simple joy of our hobby. It doesn't, or shouldn't, take much.http://www.graphics-free.com/animations/tr...ges/plane_6.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

[Byrna 0]

Hello Everyone,After having read a good part of the postings in this thread, I have some comments to make.(1) I have to admit, I agree that a trial period is definitely a good idea. It doesn't have to be long - maybe just a 7-14 day period is fine - as long as the period is long enough for the end-user to learn the to be able to use the product given its complexity given the complexity of aircraft like the 744 for example. This should also encourage developers to make sure their products are bug-free and without any major issues so that trial-periods can turn into purchases by the majority of users.(2) QNH, I also fear that signing posts with your full name can actually be a security risk for revealing your identity can be used by "wackos" for committing crimes. Please anyone do not think I am saying that the flightsim community itself is full of criminals but this is a sad fact of today's world which is using the internet in general.(3) As for pricing, it seems that the amount of time spent on development of complex aircraft and sceneries is so high that the prices we are now seeing can be justified but as some have pointed out, I too would expect more accuracy in the FDE, scenery objects (proper taxiway markings for example which seem to be missing in some payware airports) or much fewer bugs etc... The pricing may be much less of an issue if the first point (1) was followed by developers - trial versions: THis way, a user can see if they'll like the product and think it's worth it for that price before buying it.(4) Along the same lines as (3), noone has any right to say to users "this is capitalism, if you don't like it, then don't buy it." That's an arrogant, narrow-minded and frankly insensitive attitude - perfect, I suppose, for "die-hard" capitalists who think only of money and profits but not of human beings. The answer of many people to this would be, "I DO like it, but can't afford it"...because of tight budget etc... So LIKING and BUYING do not always go together.John

[MD83 1]

-