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captain420

Pilot2ATC vs Pro-ATC X

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Guest JustanotherPilot
13 hours ago, JoeFackel said:

Just a question, where have you downloaded the background chatter? Still failing to find a working link to upgrade my ProatcX installation .... thx in advance

 

There are plenty of sites that offer background chatter files from all countries. Google helps here

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I purchased PF3 a while back and found that I had to do too much to set up a flight. Like Mikealpha says you have to setup the SID and STAR by providing starting and ending point and also altitude. It does not use navigraph. If the weather changes at your destination you are stuck with the STAR that you programmed. It got a little tiresome to be honest. I also don't like the many key commands that you have to memorize because there is not a on screen menu albeit some people don't like on screen menus.

I decided to give PRO-ATC/X a try and definitely like it better. I too downloaded Ralph Zimmerman background chat and it does helps on the immersion factor. It more or less controls or talks to AI aircrafts (PF3 does a better job at this). In the end I wished I had discovered PRO-ATC/X first. I would have saved some cash.

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I've been using Pilot2ATC (which I bought), but I only have a single monitor and I find it really difficult to use with P3D on my smallish 24: monitor.  So I'm looking for a better solution.

I also bought Pro-ATC-X, but I fly just small GA and it doesn't seem suited for them very well.

I just tried the PF3 Demo, but it doesn't seem to work with P3Dv4.  everything seems ok until i click on "connect to sim"  and then PF3 just closes, without any error messages.


~ Arwen ~

 

Home Airfield: KHIE

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8 hours ago, Samaritano said:

I purchased PF3 a while back and found that I had to do too much to set up a flight. Like Mikealpha says you have to setup the SID and STAR by providing starting and ending point and also altitude. It does not use navigraph. If the weather changes at your destination you are stuck with the STAR that you programmed. It got a little tiresome to be honest. I also don't like the many key commands that you have to memorize because there is not a on screen menu albeit some people don't like on screen menus.

I decided to give PRO-ATC/X a try and definitely like it better. I too downloaded Ralph Zimmerman background chat and it does helps on the immersion factor. It more or less controls or talks to AI aircrafts (PF3 does a better job at this). In the end I wished I had discovered PRO-ATC/X first. I would have saved some cash.

If for example I am approaching the UK from the South East it is most likely that the STAR will be Ockam. This applies regardless of the landing runway direction or weather etc. PF3 allows you to make your own way to the landing rwy or be vectored. PF3 also allows you to choose from a drop down list of SIDs and STARs which is permanently saved so it only needs to be done once. As for setting up a flight you do very little in reality. And the next time you want to do that flight just a single button clock is all you need. Navigraph is used by simmers pretty much as a cheat. In that priority should be given to the published chart information. PF3 allows you to put altitude constraints against wypts etc and again all saved for posterity. As for key commands there are not that many to memorise in fact. If your memory is not up to then you can use PF3 displayer. You could even use a pencil and paper even though they now don't teach handwriting at school in Scandinavia.

If I am in Singapore I would naturally expect to hear ATC ocassionally talking to Singapore Airlines (I have the relevant AI). I would not expect to hear ATC handing people over to Manchester Control. Nor would I expect to hear alphanumeric characters being read out. PF3 v5 which is the current release is a very long way from v.1 and even further from PFE. It does not contain the Microsoft cheat of vectoring around mountains. Simply because that is not possible and cannot done in the real world. It allows much more flexibility than other ATC programmes and is pretty good at both VFR and IFR both in FAA and ICAO territories. Yes it does place more responsibility on the Captain but then that is as real as it gets because "that" is enshrined in international air law. So because you are encouraged to look-up the relevant charts etc., you get greater immersion and learn more. You are responsible for the flight planning not ATC. They just confirm that it complies with the regulations.

Each ATC programme has its idiosyncrasies but PF3 is the most accurate overall. It contains a miriad of other features that are user controlled. Plus lots of other stuff. For example if you are a "heavy" you will be given a no speed call after take-off. As for flightplanning there is plenty of stuff out there both free and payware that use the latest airac cycles. Having said that they can be, especially true of PFPX, quite inaccurate and you should "always" adopt the habit of checking the fpl against published material and skyvector. I have seen a number of fpls generated by PFPX  that are in effect back to front going the wrong way down an airway. And more importantly forcing an airway fpl when in reality you would fly direct and cross airways instead.

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I think, I'll hold off on getting an ATC add-on. Seems like its all over the place now. Wish some of these developers can team up or collaborate and come up with 1 good one, instead of a bunch of mediocre ones.


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4 minutes ago, captain420 said:

I think, I'll hold off on getting an ATC add-on. Seems like its all over the place now. Wish some of these developers can team up or collaborate and come up with 1 good one, instead of a bunch of mediocre ones.

Any of the available offerings are better than the default or not having any ATC at all.

They may differ and some have features that the others do not, but all of them are capable of delivering good ATC guidance, all of them are fun and add to the experience.

None of them are mediocre.

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1 hour ago, Glynn said:

.

The one ATC you "do not" want to use is the default. It is so bad it would be better to have it switched off altogether.

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17 hours ago, Jim Young said:

...  Sometimes it sends you to the wrong runway where aircraft are landing and taking off at the other end.  Sometimes. 

This is one of the most annoying drawbacks of Pro-ATC. In my observation, in many cases it happens when wind is below 5 kts. But there is a work-around. First, one has to find out what is the preferred runway for ai when no wind is present. Second, in the PRO_ATC airport data base one can define the same runway(s) to be preferred at low wind (< 5kts). It does not work 100% all the time but I found that wrong runway assignments are significanty reduced.


- Harry 

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4 hours ago, captain420 said:

I think, I'll hold off on getting an ATC add-on. Seems like its all over the place now. Wish some of these developers can team up or collaborate and come up with 1 good one, instead of a bunch of mediocre ones.

How many have you actually tried to make a statement like they are all mediocre? 

 


 

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I've tried Pilot2ATC, VoxATC and Pro-ATC, and I'm basing my judgements on what I've read or seen online reviews of.


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5 hours ago, vololiberista said:

The one ATC you "do not" want to use is the default. It is so bad it would be better to have it switched off altogether.

I'm going to take an unpopular stance and disagree with this. For the vast majority of users the default ATC is fine, only because it is integrated with the AI aircraft. The majority of the so called ATC chatter provided by 3rd party add-on ATC ranges from inaccurate (geographically anomalous airlines) to just annoying. The only way to avoid this is to use a live traffic add-on in concert with listening to live ATC streams. And that leads to poor AI ground traffic patterns.

And all that ignores the fact that the stock AI aircraft follow what the default ATC is telling them whether the default ATC is switched on or not. And with AI Controller 2 in a state of arrested development, there is no easy way to fix this.

Do I use the default ATC? Of course not. But it's not the hot mess that some people claim that it is. It works out of the box and doesn't require any tinkering. For comparison just try the default ATC in XP11.

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I agree - I've used Radar Contact and Pro-ATC/X and I'm experimenting with VoxATC now.  Default ATC in XP11 cannot be used and another option is required despite the fact that the pickings are very slim.

But, for P3D, I end up coming back to default because it's simple to use, recognizes AI traffic and it's right there without having to do voice training or anything else to make it work.  We'll see if I'll stick with VoxATC or not.


Rick Abshier

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2 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

The majority of the so called ATC chatter provided by 3rd party add-on ATC ranges from inaccurate (geographically anomalous airlines) to just annoying.

I don't understand why folks need additional chatter. I use ProATC/X and the radio is in almost constant use in all the routes I fly in Europe with just ATC for my flight and the AI around me. And even if I went transatlantic, would i really expect lots of inane chatter?

I do have what I would call a realistic level of AI traffic set.

Pete

 

 

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6 hours ago, captain420 said:

I've tried Pilot2ATC, VoxATC and Pro-ATC, and I'm basing my judgements on what I've read or seen online reviews of.

Then by your own account you haven't tried PF3 which has had an update today now v3.6.0. As for ATC interraction with AI PF3 does a very good job. Some of my flights have very busy chatter.

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On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 6:39 AM, Jim Young said:

Ralph Zimmerman furnishes the background chatter at realatc -  http://realatc.net/.  He furnishes it for Pilot2ATC too.

I purchased  RealATC almost 2 days ago and although I got an immediate PayPal receipt, I am still waiting for the link

I emailed this first adee given for R Zimmerman from his own site;      it was returned as non-existent (?)

I emailed the second addee given; no reply for the past hour

Anybody know why?

Should I cancel payment?

 

 

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