56 minutes ago, David Roch said:

Bob,

No need to purchase this support option, you just untick the check box.

David, does that mean that I don't get any support for the product?

I don't know, it looks like obvious that the developer is already providing support for free on his forum but I can't talk on his name. 

3 hours ago, FSXtreme said:

What is the "subscription" for?

Bob i have responded several times to your questions, not just about support,
all this info is on our forums; all the info is posted there for you,
we are always happy to help our forums are there for just that,

https://forums.chrisbelldesigns.com/forum/4-pre-sales-questions/

 

2 minutes ago, David Roch said:

I don't know, it looks like obvious that the developer is already providing support for free on his forum but I can't talk on his name. 

we do provide support and updates in the first 3months at not extra charge,
the additional charge is for a two yea live updates and support services;
we expend more about that on our FAQ on our forums,

https://forums.chrisbelldesigns.com/topic/326-all-about-our-new-shop-and-our-future-plans/

Nearly $100 for the base and vector, without paying for support. Way too expensive and I've already invested in this product line and company from its Night Environment days. No support for v4 offered there or any kind of loyalty discount to previous customers and all that investment is now pretty much down the drain just because I decided to enhance and move to a more stable platform while the developer decided to stick on a fresh new price tag for making that decision. Of course, you're free to charge what you want but I, personally, will not be supporting this product or the developer any more as I'd like to think that an upfront cost includes support, updates and enhancements to the product (I can't think of any other developer that doesn't provide us with this luxury) while its within a particular simulators life cycle without being asked to shell out even more so I can have the most up to date and stable version of the product. 

I think the technology Chris & his team have achieved is going to pave the way in the future for night lighting in our sims so anyone that hasn't experienced what his previous venture (Night Environment X) had to offer should definitely support him with this new line of product.

Karan you are mixing things up here again, i've explained to you already it is not us! you are Aerosoft customer!!!
they are the ones who should be offering loyalty update pricing; we allowed this for them!
THEY REFUSED IT!!!

so please take that issue up with who you should be taking it up with!
i can tell you its not our new publishing company - Creative Design Studios!

you should look at it this way...
Chris Bell is now Publishing his new and up to date work through a new company called - Creative Design Studios,
from here you should be able to drive the right conclusions forward,

7 hours ago, Chris Bell said:

we do provide support and updates in the first 3months at not extra charge,
the additional charge is for a two yea(rs of) live updates and support services;
we expend (explain) more about that on our FAQ on our forums,

https://forums.chrisbelldesigns.com/topic/326-all-about-our-new-shop-and-our-future-plans/

Ouch!...so if I don't buy the "Support" option, after three months, I will get neither updates or support for my purchase.

I must admit, I am drawn to this product, but this part of it doesn't seem very attractive or customer friendly.

Also Chris, I don't think the customer should have to do research by searching through FAQs and forums, in order to find out basic purchasing information like this.  It should be full disclosure on the product page.

Thank you,

Bob

we are just trying to be nice by allowing you to save additional $1.99!
sometime it makes a difference to people; we could have included this in the main price and publish 1 year support included price just the same!

either way we will deliver you a working product to your satisfactory within those 3 free months,
you can ask around; we work hard for our customers,

now that you have an account with us; keep an eye and you will see how different we are in our approach, 
its a new format with emphasis on supporting rather then profiting goal (which is still important for a business!),
i challenge you to do a price comparison with 2 year support included!
and don't forget NO TAX! and we sale in US $, not EUR!

and we still come out with an attractive and competitive pricing after all that!

bottom line support buy's you a peace of mind and makes us 100% committed to you in that time frame!
this is important in a world where LM pushes out updates every month now!!!
do you have anyone offering this sort of commitment in our industry today?

they include a support fee in the price today and hope for the best! not the case here!
you are dealing direct with developer and publisher! there will be no BS when you paid for it!

Hi David,

 

Have you tried this to fix the daytime roadway issue?.

https://forums.chrisbelldesigns.com/topic/374-blending-daytime-roadways-into-orbx/?tab=comments#comment-4133

 

9 hours ago, Chris Bell said:

we do provide support and updates in the first 3months at not extra charge,
 

Just turned me OFF

Turned me off too, big-time!

Not good enough. I will not buy any product, no matter how good without long term committed support already built into a fair price. That is a fact. No long term service, no short term sale, at any price from me! Too bad, for BM has potential,, but many great developers will soon build and back some other must have add-ons soon enough to scratch any itch, I'm sure!

The ORBX business model, however flawed sometimes by personal conflicts is far better than this sort of attitude towards quality satisfaction. ORBX have earned the thousands many of us have invested, through both thick and thin years. LM also marches to a higher beat with the way they back their sim version customers. Too bad! First impressions and all that...

Kind regards,

 

1 hour ago, SpiritFlyer said:

Turned me off too, big-time!

Not good enough. I will not buy any product, no matter how good without long term committed support already built into a fair price. That is a fact. No long term service, no short term sale, at any price from me! Too bad, for BM has potential,, but many great developers will soon build and back some other must have add-ons soon enough to scratch any itch, I'm sure!

The ORBX business model, however flawed sometimes by personal conflicts is far better than this sort of attitude towards quality satisfaction. ORBX have earned the thousands many of us have invested, through both thick and thin years. LM also marches to a higher beat with the way they back their sim version customers. Too bad! First impressions and all that...

Kind regards,

 

Yup.

I still submit that because this is not a team of people but rather an individual, perhaps there is some other help I'm not sure, but lack staff to say deal with forum issues, without charging for that service, that this launch is a bust.

I guess better late than never in collaborating with Orbx. But manually have to mess with terrain.cfg code just isn't smooth.

It would be better if Chris and company worked together financially, forum support and programming to make the marble stuff work totally coordinated with Orbx and UTX.

 

14 hours ago, FSXtreme said:

....Since when does a developer of flight sim products charge for supporting their product?.....

FSOpen Clouds. They charge £5 per year to access the server for worldwide weather coverage. It's free if you just want weather over the UK only.

Thanks Mike, will give it a try! ;-)

I am sorry that this thread turns again into conflict.
I love this product, but I am fed up with this kind of sterile debates.

Chris, I believe you shouldn't react that way.
Customers pay a lot of money for your work, they deserve clear explanations and patience from you before and after purchasing your addon.

 

my apologies!!!
i got confused there, i was sure i was responding to a different thread
and our customers do get all the attention they deserve David!