Top 10 Reasons FSW will be the next "Flight Simulator 2017"

[pracines 823]

4 hours ago, ca_metal said:

I'm sorry, but you are not part of DTG's staff and that's not what Stephen Hood is saying. He is saying just the opposite. You have an opinion, I can respect that, but you can't talk in their name.

Even about 3rd parties, I'm pretty sure some of them are already working with DTG(maybe not the mainstreams). He talked about it in a few words.  

When did I talk in their name? I know you differ with my view, but no need to tell me I'm doing something I'm not doing. 

This video makes a point about the difference between the entertainment and enterprise markets. But really P3D is closing that gap by welcoming the "entertainment" 3rd parties despite the semantics. XP11's audience is increasing very well, and AF2 is a possible "come from nowhere" candidate and blow us all away.

I truly do hope FSW succeeds.

[pracines 823]

20 minutes ago, TheFlightSimGuy said:

Missions, In plane avatars, and Cold and Dark starts. Remind me, with all of those useful things, why doesnt LM have any of them in P3D? 

Now, without using the word "addon", please tell me what things FSW doesn't have that P3D does, even in early access.

Its laughable and I look forward to your response. 

 

p.s. Mods, sorry for the two separate posts, multiquote was broken.  

Laugh away -

P3D has a thriving third party base that enjoys working with LM and its product P3D. 

Native VR support, Lots of fine tuning graphics options in the UI, Lots more customers, Jet aircraft, Avatars that can actually get out and walk around, helicopters, Speedtrees, believable AI at airports.....shall I go on??  Are you sure you're still laughing? I can make you cry with some added facts if you like. 

 

[ca_metal 2,015]

27 minutes ago, pracines said:

When did I talk in their name? I know you differ with my view, but no need to tell me I'm doing something I'm not doing. 

This video makes a point about the difference between the entertainment and enterprise markets. But really P3D is closing that gap by welcoming the "entertainment" 3rd parties despite the semantics. XP11's audience is increasing very well, and AF2 is a possible "come from nowhere" candidate and blow us all away.

I truly do hope FSW succeeds.

You are the one implying they have a roadmap with this and that; that they are saying it's not up to them to build a live weather system; that they are not listening to the suggestion people are giving on the forums. I was justing pointing all Stephen Hood always was just the opposite of that, you don't know their roadmap, they just said they will work on a live weather system (they something like that should be in the core of the sim not to be an add-on), and Cryss is always aswering to people on DTG's Forum, at steam and on the FSW Break discord.
 

Anyways, I won't keep this sim war. I have more than one sim and I hope FSW will become my main sim in the near future, just because I like the way the sim is evolving.

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

1 hour ago, pracines said:

Laugh away -

P3D has a thriving third party base that enjoys working with LM and its product P3D. 

Native VR support, Lots of fine tuning graphics options in the UI, Lots more customers, Jet aircraft, Avatars that can actually get out and walk around, helicopters, Speedtrees, believable AI at airports.....shall I go on??  Are you sure you're still laughing? I can make you cry with some added facts if you like. 

 

I'm laughing more than ever, because you had to start with the one thing you were supposed to avoid. Regardless, let's look at the rest of points. 

• Native VR support - Can easily be added when the time is right, but p3d at 30 FPS and VR is a joke. The hardware and the software isn't even close for anyone but those IPACS fellas. Fail. 
• Fine tuning graphics? Like what? Reflections? Bathymetry? Or half of the other features no one uses because they kill performance? FSW clearly needs more options, but not in Early Access when the parameters should be controlled. I'm sure a few more sliders won't be a problem if they pulled off Truesky. Fail.
• Lots more customers isn't a feature. Fail. 
• Jets? Where? You mean fighter jets? Yeah, that's what the people  have been asking for. A new F35! Wake me up when a jet that doesn't drop bombs shows up. Go fly DCS. It's much better if that's your sort of thing. 
• Avatars that get up and walk around. So having people outside the plane is more important than people inside the plane, like they are in FSW? Sounds great for a military sim but I would still rather user ezdok or chaseplane for that. 
• Helicopters need an overhaul in this old engine and everyone knows it. Unless DTG or LM does something about this, X-Plane will continue to dominate. 
• Speed trees were an overhyped technology that is still turned off in lieu of Orbx trees. No one is demanding that technology in any other sim. Fail. 
• Believable AI? Lol. You mean with addons and they still can't follow a sid or a star? Fail. 

 

[pmanhart 176]

3 hours ago, TheFlightSimGuy said:

 

Did you just insist that we should never support a sim that gives us higher quality CORE components, than what we are used to paying for? That is so absurd and counterproductive to ever moving forward in this hobby that has been crippled in its growth since ACES shuttered the place.

• They arent trying to replace A2A planes, but they got some modern ones from them, unlike LM who has Carenados from 2009 in their sim.
• They arent trying to replace ORBX, they licensed their ground textures from the, unlike LM who just changed the LC years ago.
• They arent trying to put REX out of business, REX new airport and ground textures are desperately needed, but their clouds, which is their oldest product and handily beaten by TrueSKY are not. 

Stick to all your old vices if you please, but after 17 years of this game of stagnation, I am ready for the next generation and hope all of our old devs embrace truly new technology beyond just 64 bit. 

 

No, I didn't say that at all John. Like I said, FSW doesn't currently support all that, hence why it's not as used as it could be.

I want FSW to succeed as much as you do, just keeping my rose-colored glasses on the nightstand where they belong.

My worry is, with DTG trying to put so much into FSW's core GA experience, that they miss the market for everyone else.

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

1 minute ago, pmanhart said:

 

No, I didn't say that at all John. Like I said, FSW doesn't currently support all that, hence why it's not as used as it could be.

Sorry if I misunderstood that. 

[pmanhart 176]

Just now, TheFlightSimGuy said:

Sorry if I misunderstood that. 

 

NP Josh, please see the additions to my last post as well.

[in2tech 588]

Wow, I need a drink, and don't even drink :) Well coffee. Everyone chill and go fly YOUR favorite sim, whatever you choose that to be, and ohh yeah have a good day!

It's kind of funny now that we have so many choices, FSX, FSX-SE, P3D, Aerofly ( I think ), X-Plane, Train Simulator ( sorry came from an earlier post.. my bad ),  and other's. That people are actually angry instead of super happy. What's up with that?

[Dusk 16]

Well this thread has moved apace. People are not angry I believe, but just putting forward reasonable points of view on the various sims of choice.

For me the most salient arguments are from TheFllightSimGuy whom is putting forward the proposal that FSW out of the box, which is still in early access, is a superior experience than P3D (without add-ons). This is something which we should all be able to agree with if you have tried both without add-ons. Also currently the difference in price of $200 ($60) versus $25 makes it an easier starting point for someone who wants to try a flight sim for the first time.

It’s makes no sense to me why 3PA companies would not want to support FSW because of their Steam policy. The potential market via steam for FSW is huge and I would have thought that any reasonable margin from those potential sales are better than no sale at all. Jordon King in his video mentioned 800K users for FSX-SE, I just cant see P3D users anywhere near that number, be surprised if over 100k. Its been made clear they can still push their products via the usual channels so in end the user will decide if they purchase through Steam or not.

Personally my go to sim is still P3D v4 with lots of expensive add-ons to give me the experience I want from a sim, but I keep coming back to FSW as DTG are moving the package in the right direction. I just hope they can keep it up and resolve the many issues that currently plague FSW.

[tonywob 4,768]

Please everyone, let's keep this thread clean from personal attacks as it's quite an interesting and lively discussion and it would be a shame to lock it. Everyone likes different things and looks for different things in a sim, and it's impossible to win an argument on the Internet (we all know that )

[Holdit 551]

5 hours ago, Learjet777 said:

Wow, I need a drink, and don't even drink :) Well coffee. Everyone chill and go fly YOUR favorite sim, whatever you choose that to be, and ohh yeah have a good day!

It's kind of funny now that we have so many choices, FSX, FSX-SE, P3D, Aerofly ( I think ), X-Plane, Train Simulator ( sorry came from an earlier post.. my bad ),  and other's. That people are actually angry instead of super happy. What's up with that?

It seems that people can't just be happy with their own choice, regardless of how good a fit it is for them; they need to feel that they've backed the winner too. 

[tonywob 4,768]

For me, there is no winner here.

At the end of the day (and in my opinion), non of our sims are particularly good when you compare them to some big name studio games. We have a long way to go still. Progress is painfully slow, P3D and FSW are still using the same flight dynamics and dated graphics engine from 2006, and X-Plane is stuck until Austin accepts that the sim has problems and starts fixing them.

 

 

 

[Dusk 16]

Here is a video by Frooglesim on FSW missions. Now Frooglesim is someone who basically criticized heavily FSW on release and decided not to continue evaluating the product. However on this latest video he now nearly uses the word impressive a few times!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=142&v=mhUVkzW8KHQ

He agrees it seems to be moving in the right direction.

Edit: This is not a review video, he just shows some missions with commentary.

[pracines 823]

7 hours ago, TheFlightSimGuy said:

I'm laughing more than ever, because you had to start with the one thing you were supposed to avoid. Regardless, let's look at the rest of points. 

• Native VR support - Can easily be added when the time is right, but p3d at 30 FPS and VR is a joke. The hardware and the software isn't even close for anyone but those IPACS fellas. Fail. 
• Fine tuning graphics? Like what? Reflections? Bathymetry? Or half of the other features no one uses because they kill performance? FSW clearly needs more options, but not in Early Access when the parameters should be controlled. I'm sure a few more sliders won't be a problem if they pulled off Truesky. Fail.
• Lots more customers isn't a feature. Fail. 
• Jets? Where? You mean fighter jets? Yeah, that's what the people  have been asking for. A new F35! Wake me up when a jet that doesn't drop bombs shows up. Go fly DCS. It's much better if that's your sort of thing. 
• Avatars that get up and walk around. So having people outside the plane is more important than people inside the plane, like they are in FSW? Sounds great for a military sim but I would still rather user ezdok or chaseplane for that. 
• Helicopters need an overhaul in this old engine and everyone knows it. Unless DTG or LM does something about this, X-Plane will continue to dominate. 
• Speed trees were an overhyped technology that is still turned off in lieu of Orbx trees. No one is demanding that technology in any other sim. Fail. 
• Believable AI? Lol. You mean with addons and they still can't follow a sid or a star? Fail. 

 

I simply answered you exactly what you typed. I did not use the word "add-on" or any specific add-on at all. But then you bring chase plane and ezdok into the same conversation that you wanted to keep add-ons out of. 

VR and other graphics features are a joke or failure for you perhaps because you don't have a system that can handle it- mine can, and I'm getting a much better system soon too. 

You said to mention "things", and to have a large thriving customer and third party base (both are things) is the key to success, surly nobody can dispute that.

Suddenly you bring XP into the mix and that had nothing to do with what you asked.  

AI in stock P3D includes familiar models of planes one would expect at a given airport - i.e. 747's 737's 321's CRJ's at JFK in quantity - FSW has a few gen aviation planes.

I will leave you with this, I have been simming since the 1980's and I get a new state of the art PC about every 1 1/2 years. I go with the best over all experience no matter what it takes and currently FSW is not the best experience. There is no way to know for sure that the project will go in the direction I want it to (FS11 - with ADDED features - not a few new but a bunch LESS features). I think the difference between you and me, is how much we are willing and able to spend on and in flight simulation. FSW suits you, but it currently does not suit me. And concerning the OP or more specifically, Jordan's point about entertainment/enterprise, I think many factors about the flight sim market are being specifically left out so a biased point can be made. How or why this vid came about is curious, but all one has to do is put XP, P3D, FSX, FS9(!), and AF2 in the mix and suddenly FSW is in trouble, and the opinions/facts in the video gain some valuable (to consumers) perspective. It all has to do with "overall' experience and current competition, not what "might be" in a few months. One must consider that the others (LM, LR, IPACS) are not going to sit around and wait for FSW to catch up, and how are 3rd parties going to treat FSW if/when an SDK is released. 

We'll see what DTG presents when FSW exits EA, and in the mean time I give them all the time they need. I want DTG to succeed, because I want a better experience than I have now, just like its always been for me. 

Take good care Josh 

[ca_metal 2,015]

3 hours ago, Dusk_Reaper said:

Here is a video by Frooglesim on FSW missions. Now Frooglesim is someone who basically criticized heavily FSW on release and decided not to continue evaluating the product. However on this latest video he now nearly uses the word impressive a few times!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=142&v=mhUVkzW8KHQ

He agrees it seems to be moving in the right direction.

Edit: This is not a review video, he just shows some missions with commentary.

I saw this video, he's really changing his mind. His position about it really changed between this and the first video.