For people that use both P3D and X-Plane, questions

[Murmur 3,941]

1 hour ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

(I can't imagine why they don't address the torque issue after all these years)

I have to install another hard drive and rearrange some things, then I'll give it an install and see how it goes with the default 172.

Actually the torque issue while flying has been completely fixed a couple of years ago.

The current issue is only while taking off in crosswinds, and it seems to be exacerbated in single propeller aircrafts. Maybe that's what Chock was referring to. Austin should definitely do something about that, because it's the only big flight model issue right now.

If you decide to install the demo, my advice is to give it some time. Even if the first impression is not what you hoped, stick with it and experiment with it for some weeks.

The demo allows you to install add-ons and plugins, except for add-on scenery. So unfortunately in the demo you'll miss one of X-Plane strong points, that is OrthoXP photo-scenery coupled with OpenStreetMap 3D overlays.

 

[Denco 48]

5 hours ago, Murmur said:

Actually the torque issue while flying has been completely fixed a couple of years ago.

The current issue is only while taking off in crosswinds, and it seems to be exacerbated in single propeller aircrafts. Maybe that's what Chock was referring to. Austin should definitely do something about that, because it's the only big flight model issue right now.

 

 

Plus the issue where there is little to almost none ground effect creating this tendency for planes to smash their front wheel's on to the runway. Hopefully the upcoming fix in the 11.10 will correct this issue.

[mjrhealth 820]

2 hours ago, Denco said:

Plus the issue where there is little to almost none ground effect creating this tendency for planes to smash their front wheel's on to the runway. Hopefully the upcoming fix in the 11.10 will correct this issue.

Teh cross wind issue and dropping onto runway are both known, The taxi issue is something to do with pedals and teh front wheel responding too quick, they are trying to find a way to fix it. The dropping onto runway is due to the ground affect algoritm not taking into account a hard deck to wind ignores teh ground. All a work in progress

 

[Lenny777 299]

On 8/17/2017 at 7:37 AM, Gregg_Seipp said:

Long time FSX/P3D user.  I had X-Plane years ago back when I was getting my PPL and, at the time, found its flight controls to be overdone...but that was then.  These questions aren't meant to be a criticism and I absolutely do not want to be critical of either sim so I'm asking people that fly both:

• What does each do better?
• How is the flight dynamics of X-Plane?  Does it have realistic air movement?
• What add-ons are essential and what do you use in X-Plane?
• What drives your decision on which to use?  e.g. night time?, flight dynamics?, etc.

Please, please, avoid us vs. them discussion and I'm only interested in responses from folks that fly both.

Love XP11 because of its 64 bit architecture and it just runs better thatn P3Dv4. In addition the addons have and are increasing exponentially. However, ever since P3Dv4 came out I have spent little time in XP11 for some very important reasons which have long been the achilles heel of XP:

 

A decent ATC coordinated with a decent traffic AI program along the lines of MyTraffic, UT or Traffic 360. I like to fly commercial planes (777,747,737 etc.) and there is nothing like MyTraffic running even with the default ATC coordinating on the ground. XP11 falls way behind in that respect which is why I haven't used it much since P3Dv4. For weather Xenviro and while a very nice program overpriced and not in the same league with ActiveSkyP3Dv4 and the assorted texture addons like ASCA or Envtex.

 

Another thing which has continually bothered me is the lack of seasonal textures. 

 

I've purchased several quality planes for XP11 such as the MD80, and FFs 757 and IXEG 737. 

 

So this will likely be the state of affairs until some of these are improved and sorted out.

 

 

[Lenny777 299]

Yes I've done the seasonal  patch route but is unsatisfactory. That program for example does not replace the ground textures and moreover don't care for the trees. For P3Dv4 for example, you can purchase Orbx HD trees and let the P3Dv4 engine change the seasonal nature of those trees and the ground textures change as well.. Way more adaptive with texture replacements etc.

[jcomm 5,890]

On ‎18‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 2:51 PM, Murmur said:

Actually the torque issue while flying has been completely fixed a couple of years ago.

The current issue is only while taking off in crosswinds, and it seems to be exacerbated in single propeller aircrafts. Maybe that's what Chock was referring to. Austin should definitely do something about that, because it's the only big flight model issue right now.

If you decide to install the demo, my advice is to give it some time. Even if the first impression is not what you hoped, stick with it and experiment with it for some weeks.

The demo allows you to install add-ons and plugins, except for add-on scenery. So unfortunately in the demo you'll miss one of X-Plane strong points, that is OrthoXP photo-scenery coupled with OpenStreetMap 3D overlays.

 

Indeed it was thanks to Murmur we had the torque bug finally fixed - he managed to finally give Austin the evidence that convinced him... 

Regarding the weathervane, indeed testing 10.05 with the default C172 vs for instance the C90 makes a whole lot of a difference, but I'll have to try and add two props to the C172, while keeping the same GW, and see how it goes :-)

 

[N1125Y 22]

31 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Indeed it was thanks to Murmur we had the torque bug finally fixed - he managed to finally give Austin the evidence that convinced him... 

Regarding the weathervane, indeed testing 10.05 with the default C172 vs for instance the C90 makes a whole lot of a difference, but I'll have to try and add two props to the C172, while keeping the same GW, and see how it goes :-)

 

....so, the fix to the torque has already implemented, right ??? 

[Murmur 3,941]

9 minutes ago, N1125Y said:

....so, the fix to the torque has already implemented, right ??? 

Yes (while flying), but there's probably another bug present on propeller aircrafts during the ground roll in crosswind conditions (in addition to the exaggerated weathervaning tendency present in most aircrafts).

 

[Gregg_Seipp 565]

1 minute ago, Murmur said:

Yes (while flying), but there's probably another bug present on propeller aircrafts during the ground roll in crosswind conditions (in addition to the exaggerated weathervaning tendency present in most aircrafts).

I saw that on a youtube video.  A guy landing, I think it was a Baron, all over the runway.  It would take a *heck* of a wind to push it like that in the real world.  Shouldn't be much torque at that point, engines being at idle.  I wonder if it would be mitigated by properly aligning the elevator and aileron...after touchdown of all wheels, moving the yoke so you're "diving into" a headwind which would push the nosewheel and one main wheel harder into the runway.

[N1125Y 22]

...pulling adversely to the left when Taxing, this is what happening to my on the ground ( GA TurboProp)   

[Murmur 3,941]

1 hour ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

I saw that on a youtube video.  A guy landing, I think it was a Baron, all over the runway.  It would take a *heck* of a wind to push it like that in the real world.  Shouldn't be much torque at that point, engines being at idle.  I wonder if it would be mitigated by properly aligning the elevator and aileron...after touchdown of all wheels, moving the yoke so you're "diving into" a headwind which would push the nosewheel and one main wheel harder into the runway.

The ground physics model of X-Plane is actually quite complex, and indeed you can feel, for example, the nosewheel tire gripping when you put weight on it, or losing grip when unloading it.

The real issue is that most X-Plane aircraft have an exaggerated directional stability, so they tend to weathervane a lot more than they should, and this is evident in crosswind ops where the aircraft control becomes unrealistic.

I suspect that this issue could be mitigated by a good aircraft designer, but apparently most of them do not tackle it. The Reality Expansion Packs addons mention improved ground handling in their features list, but I don't know if they actually improved on this issue, since I do not own any of them.

 

[mjrhealth 820]

35 minutes ago, Murmur said:

The ground physics model of X-Plane is actually quite complex, and indeed you can feel, for example, the nosewheel tire gripping when you put weight on it, or losing grip when unloading it.

The real issue is that most X-Plane aircraft have an exaggerated directional stability, so they tend to weathervane a lot more than they should, and this is evident in crosswind ops where the aircraft control becomes unrealistic.

I suspect that this issue could be mitigated by a good aircraft designer, but apparently most of them do not tackle it. The Reality Expansion Packs addons mention improved ground handling in their features list, but I don't know if they actually improved on this issue, since I do not own any of them.

 

Laminar are aware of teh issue, partly due to exaggerated turn when  pedals pushed. Ie wheels rotates to fast and to much compared to input. They are trying to find a fix.ie wheel will rotate slower than teh actual input you use.  Lets see what they come up with.

[Paraffin 2,197]

5 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

Laminar are aware of teh issue, partly due to exaggerated turn when  pedals pushed. Ie wheels rotates to fast and to much compared to input. They are trying to find a fix.ie wheel will rotate slower than teh actual input you use.  Lets see what they come up with.

It's not just a pedal issue though. With feet completely off the pedals and a light (10kt) crosswind, a plane at slow taxi speed will weathervane and eventually self-steer off the runway either to the left or right side, just depending on which side the crosswind is coming from.

There may be other things involved, like maybe insufficient weight and friction in the tires. But you can get this exaggerated weathervaning effect with no pedal input at all. It will even happen with the default Cirrus jet, which removes any torque and propwash effects.

[C2615 319]

The FLIGHT dynamic of XP dosen't really surpass P3D with accuracy. Rather it does "feel" more "dynamic", and IMO sometimes, too "dynamic".

But the GROUND dynamic of XP is much better than P3D, makes every touchdown much more enjoyable... well, I mean, the ground dynamic of P3D is just.... too bad...

[odourboy 1,288]

On 20/08/2017 at 0:45 PM, Paraffin said:

It's not just a pedal issue though. With feet completely off the pedals and a light (10kt) crosswind, a plane at slow taxi speed will weathervane and eventually self-steer off the runway either to the left or right side, just depending on which side the crosswind is coming from.

There may be other things involved, like maybe insufficient weight and friction in the tires. But you can get this exaggerated weathervaning effect with no pedal input at all. It will even happen with the default Cirrus jet, which removes any torque and propwash effects.

I've felt there is also a serious lack of aileron authority on the ground, which doesn't help the crosswind takeoff issues with GA aircraft.

This whole ground handling/crosswind mess really dampened my initial enthusiasm for XP11, despite being an overall superior GA platform.