J van E

Losing faith

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It is very odd. I can't remember a time where so many civilian flightsims were available. FSX, P3D, Aerofly FS 2, FSW, and FlyInside has announced yet another. It is amazing. But what is even more amazing is that none of those sims offer the 'complete package'. And that I am becoming more and more negative about flightsimming. Flightsimming has been my main 'computer hobby' for quite a few years now but I am losing interest, also because none of the sims offer everything I want in one package. Every sim has its shortcomings. And it seems to take longer and longer before the things I want will get added. If ever. I notice I am flying less often and if I do fly I often quit the sim before I have landed because I get bored. The last few months I have been flying Aerofly FS 2, mainly in VR, and I was thinking about installing either P3D or XP to get some fixes for things I am missing in Aerofly but the idea of having to go through all that again (all those seperate addons, all those updates) makes me sick already. Everything has become so complicated and everything is taking too long. I am losing hope. Feels like I am losing faith. In a time where so much sims are being released. Odd. The more sims there are, the more it becomes obvious what is lacking and that it will take years if not decades before I get what I am hoping for. And I'm not getting any younger.

Anyone else recognizes this? I guess I simply need a break. Or I am just having a very bad monday. 

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J van E, I hear you!

While the sims in general have moved forward leaps and bounds recently, they all have their major shortcomings and are all 'a work in progress' which seems never complete. 

One spends more time tinkering, downloading, installing, re-installing, hoping, then actually simming. But it is the nature of the hobby, it was always like that and I guess it will be always like that.

In our life time there will be no complete sim. Each developer has different priorities and progress is painfully slow.

I guess it is just the nature of this beast. Far too complex to ever be whole.

Take a break, enjoy the rest of the summer and come back when you feel like it.

Cheers.

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Fly for a purpose, use Airhauler2 or perhaps fly online. By aspiring to a goal you tend to overlook the shortcomings of the Sim and concentrate on achievement.

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I fully understand and feel similarly.

 

I also find it very frustrating that every sim out there has a shortcoming or 6.

 

I feel Xplane11 has the most potential but Laminar Research refuses to invest in more employees to fill in the shortcoming gaps in a reasonable time frame. So it just lingers on perpetually at a half assed featured state.

 

In the mean times, since there is absolutely nothing I can do about it, I try to enjoy what is out there.

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1 hour ago, J van E said:

all those seperate addons, all those updates) makes me sick already

Yeah, I'm still on P3D 3.4...I always wait until the smoke clears before I update.  Even though having the latest and coolest can be fun, it can also be a real pill.  I usually wait until the first patch until upgrading so I can avoid the mess.  With P3D4, I may wait longer.  In the meantime, I'm flying the Caribbean.  In terms of add-ons, I'm constantly trying to get rid of them (and I've had a lot.)  I, generally, avoid SimConnect add-ons and any add-on that makes my sim CTD gets the boot really, really quick.

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Hello again Jan.

I hear what you're saying about no one sim offering the complete package, then again we have so many different level of flight simmers with such diverse interests that it's difficult to build a sim that will satisfy everyone.

Over my 30+ years in flight sim, I've never seen anything that comes close to the complexity that I enjoy. I'm not talking about setting up the sim (which has actually become easier and more trouble free than it was a few years ago, at least on the FSX and P3D side of things), I'm talking about the complexity of some of the addons.

More than complexity, flight sim is the most diverse computer based game/hobby I know of, and every time I've felt myself becoming a little board I've been able to open yet another door to another level.  For instance:

1. Move from flying GA to complex airliners, then...

2. Move from flying offline to flying on VATSIM, and then large scale VATSIM events, then...

3. Flying shared cockpit on VATSIM, especially large events, then...

4. Sharing what I've learned by working with others, and using shared cockpit to teach people how to operate airliners and fly on VATSIM. This is likely the most enjoyment I've ever had in flight sim and allowed me to give back to the community that has given so much to me.  Sadly my work with flight sim developers now prevents me from doing much of training, but I miss it - especially taking them up in Shared Cockpit as this is the very best venue from which to train.

It's one thing to enjoy our hobby between ourselves and our computer, but entirely a different experience sharing it with others - and not just shared cockpit.  For instance I'm part of a private group made up of some exceptionally good people, and talking and sharing flight sim with them every couple of days really makes the hobby for me.  Not "talking" in a forum, our communications are all voice or infrequently real time chat.  Being a small private group, we're all very close friends, and that's what really makes things work.

Best wishes to everyone.

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2 hours ago, J van E said:

It is very odd... 

And I'm not getting any younger...

Anyone else recognizes this?

I guess I simply need a break. Or I am just having a very bad monday. 

Hi Jeroen,

Yes sir, a reoccurring theme that strikes me to the floor every so often. It always signals (to me) that I need to divest of myself and turn my eyes on other things and other people for awhile.

After a time of only occasional flights and stifling yawns something always draws me back in and relights the fires. These days I am delighted in all the pretend reality my virtual escape has tricked me into believing.

Yeah, I know, the old excitement/boredom pattern will be overlaid again sooner or later, but for now I have never enjoyed it as much. Perhaps it is early onset dementia instead of P3Dv4 with great addons...

Perhaps not, but one thing for sure, a change is as good as a rest.

Take care old friend.

Kindest regards,

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Time to use that headset to explore some of the other possibilities of VR for a while, in genres that are not only state of the art but well funded.

I would suggest Elite Dangerous for a few weeks until the planes draw you inevitably back. :emu_melk:

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I hear you. I am ready to either take a break, or quit for good. Upgraded the computer, installed P3Dv4 last week, and nothing works. Sitting here with Saitek panels, and FITs, and nothing works.

I have had it.

 

LG

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Frankly I have used the Flightsim in Google Earth for some flight experiences, just to enjoy flying over the scenery, photoreal scenery.  In FSX the only territory I fly over is photoreal, I have about half of the US covered out to the Great Plains from the West Coast.  I also have part of central Europe covered.  Mainly I sim over California, Nevada and Arizona which are all covered with photoreal scenery in FSX.  I don't sim very often because I have found flights covered on youtube which get me at the controls.  Youtube is opening up aviation if you know how to search there.  There you don't need a sim, you can just enjoy the ride.

John

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2 hours ago, J van E said:

It is very odd. I can't remember a time where so many civilian flightsims were available. FSX, P3D, Aerofly FS 2, FSW, and FlyInside has announced yet another. It is amazing. But what is even more amazing is that none of those sims offer the 'complete package'. And that I am becoming more and more negative about flightsimming.

I understand your position, but I have a more positive outlook.

It's interesting to note that the fact that every sim has shortcomings, is actually the very reason that there is so much competition right now. If one sim would be better than all the others in every aspect, it would be the monopolist.

That's more or less what happened for more than a decade with the MSFS dominance. It became better than the others in almost all aspects (scenery complexity, weather, traffic, expandability), so that it enjoyed a de-facto monopoly.

The positive aspect is that simmers enjoyed a stable platform, rich of content. The negative aspect is that, due to lack of competition, it remained relatively stagnant, and it did not improve on its shortcomings as much as it probably would have in a more competitive market.

I see the current landscape very interesting.

Right now, FSW seems to be the fastest moving product. IMO, Dovetail is bringing the first real innovations in the MSFS-derived sims in more than a decade. The product is still in its infancy, but you can already see some amazing screenshots. If DTG will keep this momentum for the next year, FSW could really become one of the "staple" sims in the market.

With regard to X-Plane: I can understand that, for the casual observer, it may seem as slow moving as it has ever been. But LR expanded their staff and resources, and the first results were already visible at the launch of X-Plane 11, when comparing it with X-Plane 10. The various improvements planned in the roadmap (VR, performance, various scenery improvements) will progressively unroll in the near future.

Although, I concur that there are many requested features that always seems to be in the backburner (seasons, AI, weather effects). We'll see whether the increasing competition (mainly from FSW, which IMO is the more direct competitor to X-P) will have any effect on Laminar Research.

The product on which I'm most "pessimistic" is indeed AeroflyFS 2. I think there are simply too many features in which it's too behind compared to FSW and X-P. The advantage in FPS and the quick "plug and play" design are great, but they won't give it alone the push needed to conquer a significant part of the market share. Of course, I could be wrong, and maybe IPACS will do a miracle and add most of the required features for it to become a major player.

Note that I'm not saying that Aerofly FS 2 will fail, just that it will remain a niche sim, as for example X-Plane has been for years. Again, maybe IPACS will prove me wrong, it's all conjecture. :-)

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, J van E said:

Anyone else recognizes this?

You must have missed my "Tower of Babel" prediction.

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3 hours ago, J van E said:

I notice I am flying less often and if I do fly I often quit the sim before I have landed because I get bored. The last few months I have been flying Aerofly FS 2, mainly in VR, and I was thinking about installing either P3D or XP to get some fixes for things I am missing in Aerofly but the idea of having to go through all that again (all those seperate addons, all those updates) makes me sick already. Everything has become so complicated and everything is taking too long. I am losing hope.

You are not alone.  The prospect of reinstalling everything for P3Dv4 kept me away from that sim for now, that and the extra cash for buying upgrade.  There are simply too much to do to bring back the sim.  I have very little time, so the frustration is multiplied.  My saving grace these days is XP11 and Ortho4XP, where what I see below my wings is as real as it gets.  For me at least, my interest in flight sim is to fly the plane and enjoy the scenery, so that combo fits the bill.  I did try my hand at PMDG birds, bought training videos etc., but somehow never got in to them.  I guess I know for sure now that would not enjoy a career as airliner pilot.  If a hobby becomes a chore, then it's time to change hobby.  One other part that I don't like is the PC HW arm race.  I have now upgraded my PC three times, bought three different graphic cards, yet despite high FPS, the micro stutters in the ESP sim just completely turned me off, so I quit the arm race close to 3 years ago.  I have not touched any sims until XP11 recently.  This hobby for me is a love hate relationship, you keep telling yourself may be, just may be one more change and that will be it.:anonymose:

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I'm pretty much done as well.  Too much time playing around trying to get things to work right made the whole thing more trouble than it was worth.  There's always something from interrupted downloads to compatibility issues, tweaking, random crashes and dozens of other little glitches have left me enjoying watching YouTube cockpit videos instead of simming.  I've been simming since fs2 and here we are, at the cusp of a new paradigm in flight simming, and yet we're still dealing with problems.  I'm just bored with the whole thing, and yes, none of these programs equates to a "complete"sim. 

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From 2001 until mid 2015 I flew about 320 hours on 2000, 2002, 2004 and the FSX various versions.  I was always tweaking and trying things and trying to make each flight simulator the best it could be and was never happy. Spend more time tweaking than flying.  Finally decided on FSX:SE after it was out about a year and never looked back.  Since late 2015 I have flown around 490 hours.  I keep my FSX install very basic.  the only Scenery add-ons I have are the latest Scenery Solutions Ultimate Terrain series of add-on for North America, Europe and the Caribbean. For the rest of the world I used Cloud 9 Xclass landclass.. I also use FreeMeshX mesh for some parts of the world.  The only other add-on scenery are some of my small creations and one freeware add-on airport to fix one messy default airport that I fly into on a regular basis. Besides the default aircraft I have a couple of freeware planes.  I also have a real weather application. That's it. In  the pass I have tried various add-ons, some purchased and some freeware. Got tired on installing an add-on and then my sim would start working slower or lock up.

My point, I got tired of the tweaking and never flying and would quit for months at a time or as the title of this topic says, I was "losing faith." Once I simplified my FSX install, I just focused on the flying.  May not be for everyone, but this worked for me.

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I just watched a 45 minute video on FSW on youtube, and I wasn't that impressed.  It did not look much beyond FSX to me, it looked still in it's infancy.  When I get a new system I will probably migrate to XP-11.  The visuals have become much better and richer over the years.  FSX is still my primary sim but I don't fly it very often now that youtube covers many flights with many different types of aircraft.  Maybe I've just become accustomed to the way things look from "up there".

 

John

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1 hour ago, johncott said:

My point, I got tired of the tweaking and never flying and would quit for months at a time or as the title of this topic says, I was "losing faith." Once I simplified my FSX install, I just focused on the flying.  May not be for everyone, but this worked for me.

HD's are cheap so I pretty much keep every sim out there on my machine, ready to run. However, over the years, the chasing after the pot at the end of the ESP rainbow has also gotten old, so my sims are accordingly light now. All Orbx stuff and a very tiny bit of warily installed FSDT, and that's it.

No weird conflicts, CTD's, OOM's etc; just plain old flying when I'm in the mood and can stomach that ancient landclass.

I have a lot of hope for Aerofly, but no problem at all messing with FSX/P3D and Flyinside and even X-plane with flyinside.

And when that gets boring, I won't turn up my nose at War Thunder, or DCS or Elite Dangerous or whatever. Anything to keep the variety and interest up, while I wait for Aerofly to move forward, and frown pensively at FSW.

The secret is not to get caught in a rut. Of any sort.

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Choose two of the existing sims of your liking, anyone of those will not completely satisfy you, but choose two that are well apart from each other, and enjoy both!. I'm with P3Dv3.4 (still waiting for a new video card to do the move to P3Dv4) and Aerofly FS 2. Also, take a break from time to time, and you'll be fresh for the next "season".

My 2 cents...

Cheers, Ed

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4 hours ago, SpiritFlyer said:

Yes sir, a reoccurring theme that strikes me to the floor every so often.

...where...

4 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

I've felt myself becoming a little board

Always fun, browsing Hangar Chat :)

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This is a good time for those bored to take a break especially if migrating to a sim on training wheels including v4 and come back when there are less compatibility issues = less stress

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+1 Jeroen

I feel the same as many of the commenters, although I have chosen to stick with my trusty "FSX-A" and addons I simply have not had time to fully enjoy, (I am not bored at all). My sim is configured to the point where little if any glitches or incompatibility's occur, except for the occasional OOM, but I can live with that. It is running smooth with FPS & graphics quality that are believable to my poor old eyes, and my current hardware.

Whenever I read a forum topic about "new this or new that" or the glitch factor of deciding new is better and therefore it should be everything the other sim or version was and better, without considering the overall effect.

So many changes over the past five or so years, the new sim's new players  &  new ever more expensive hardware chasing the dragon (sim features and suitable hardware to achieve acceptable performance to complete the overall illusion of virtual flying) to finally defeat/subdue the dragon to the point where he complies to our every requirement. (Not possible)

I like to remind myself in the form of analogy, the feeling I had as a young man when I learned to drive and bought my first car, it wasn't much ( 20 years older than the current model of the era) but it was all mine, driving was a fresh and new experience filled with all conceivable possibilities for fun and adventure. The car was stock standard basic features mechanically sound, tidy car but with great potential for modifications which were affordable and pleasing to my personal dreams and aspirations. It was my freedom machine, not overly impressive to look at, nor did it perform like a modern vehicle, (but that would change gradually as my tweaking and tinkering adding and shaping to an image I had in my mind of what its final looks and performance could be).
It was modified over time as I found the available parts according to my meagre income as I trained for my job, and kept a little aside for a social life and other expenses. With that in mind I set out to find the best most affordable parts within my budget. I found a guy who was into modifying old vehicles into show car hotrods / street rods, reshaping, painting, chroming, dropping suspension mods fancy engines and drive trains, kitting out with leather, and luxury. While that is not the look I was going for I learned a lot through this guy, he even offered me some of the swapped out parts from previous builds at reasonable cost. One of the most impressive parts he sold me (for a young fella with wonder and excitement still intact) was a "Holley 350 Carburettor" it was chromed and polished to a mirror shine very impressive when flipping the hood for my friends to see, it also came with all the needed engine parts to convert my current engine performance from ordinary to extra-ordinary.
As time went by the car began to take shape ( the image was reflecting my hopes and dreams), it was also my daily drive so I had become accustomed to all its little quirks and idiosyncrasies. Only halfway through the build and enjoying my Car and the freedom it offered to a young fella, building process and features incorporated, could it be more perfect.
Well yes! if only I had more money & time, (no matter what features I built onto the car it would forever remain old (classic), with occasional reliability issues at the worst possible time). My friends were spending more time socialising and because of their jobs would often receive a modern reliable company car as their daily drive. I began to see the disparity and with the shiny glow of boyhood motoring-wonder wearing thin, somewhere along the line finishing the dream build was lost, ( sometimes by the side of the road - hood up radiator cap belching steam or some other unfortunate mechanical failure, my friends wishing me well as they bailed for social gatherings which I had hoped to also attend) the realisation that every day traffic jams were becoming more congested and I had no aircon to cool my frustration. And later on (aided by a miserable sod who decided that my car and hard work, financial input would be better off as his, and so it was stolen never to be recovered probably stripped and dumped. (Insured @ market value for the original vehicle without mods). (The jokes on whoever has my Holley Carb, it was a custom original, I would recognise it immediately, while it worked for me I hope it gave the thief nothing but trouble). But life moves on, I haven't thought about that car for many years. 

I guess what I'm trying to say in a round about fashion. IS:  Enjoy what you have, while you have it, appreciate it for what it is, and dream of what it might one day become, live with its quirks and inconsistencies for now (you will learn to manage/accept them), decide what level ticks most of the boxes or has capacity for growth, be inspired by the experts / Devs - they will reward your commitment to a shared dream, spend as much time away from the sim on life's other wonders as you should for balance, don't miss out on that company car and other opportunities, close the hood for a while it may still be there when you return (only different), life's too short, jump into another car, keep moving forward, join your friends (they are thoughtless in the best possible sense) but atleast they aren't stuck by the side of the road nursing a dream which is maturing slowly or unconventionally toward the future.

That is why I have chosen to stick with FSX-A until it nolonger produces the excitement it did when first released. It still retains all this for me without the grief associated, I can keep and use my addons as well as stuff I have downloaded yet to install, without following into the new unknown territory. I will leave this to others who have the desire to see what FS will become. A niche Pie cut too thinly into ever smaller pieces, is certainly not a recipe that will please all, catering to all tastes and apetites.

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