Skypoint

Desent Path Unachievable

55 posts in this topic

I think we've drifted off topic here.  One thing I'd absolutely do is to load up the NGX with that flightplan and STAR and verify that all the altitude restrictions and legs are right...which you should be doing.  Also, make a note of what altitude and speed you're hitting the points at as you come down.  Also, if you get a message that drag is required then, by all means, deploy the speedbrake while the engines are idle.  Point is, do whatever it reasonably takes to keep the airplane in VNAV PATH and, if it gets off it, get it back on it.  Things get dicey on STARs like this, coming in on VNAV SPD.

In answer to your follow-on question, no, the NGX is not that difficult to get down, most times.  But, sometimes it needs assistance.  The good news is that, once you learn how to handle it well, you should have a sense of accomplishment...learning what all those messages and indicators mean and how to respond to them.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

As stated, the QOTSII does a much better of VNAV through the waypoints.  Some STARs are a bit challenging for sure.  Not knowing your destination runway makes planning tough at times.  In the real world, most often you are vectored off the STAR at some point, maybe 30 miles out or sooner.  But you are also given specific descent instructions.  Make no mistake, you will be given a high approach my controllers in the real world too, but they are realistic to adjust to.  A lot of pilots will tell you the old 3:1 ratio is now 4:1 with the winglets and slippery designed jets.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NGX comes down just fine, just need to stay on top of energy management.  Some things to consider if having trouble getting the aircraft down are 1) make sure the A/T is disco'd  and the engines are at Flight Idle 2) Use Vert Speed to keep a good rate of descent when decreasing the A/S 3) get the spoilers out early 4) below 10,000 use FLCH. and the most important 5) as soon as it is apparent the aircraft is going to make the upcoming speed/altitude restriction start setting it up for the fix after that. Get ahead of the aircraft.  If all else fails disco the A/P and hand fly it.  

I just tried this approach and didn't have any problems making the speed/crossing restrictions.   

blaustern

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aivlasoft is great software that will give you what runway based on your weather program. 

Also gives you suggested sid, stars On a map whilst tracking your aircraft you can easily choose one 

It takes the confusion out. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, zmak said:

Aivlasoft is great software that will give you what runway based on your weather program. 

Also Simbrief, which of course is free.

 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Also Simbrief, which of course is free.

 

 

 

 

 

yes  it  is  but  there  is  a donate  button  on top  as well:biggrin:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Also Simbrief, which of course is free.

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't know Simbrief selected runways based on wind and a selection of sids and stars and transitions . Are you sure? 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, zmak said:

I didn't know Simbrief selected runways based on wind and a selection of sids and stars and transitions . Are you sure? 

It's never failed for me, not once, and I fly a lot!

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, pete_auau said:

yes  it  is  but  there  is  a donate  button  on top  as well:biggrin:

Are you quoting my recent post about SimBrief and the author (Derek)?  Another follower!  That's very nice of you my friend!  Made my day brother!  :cool:

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

It's never failed for me, not once, and I fly a lot!

 

 

I use it and plug the plan into aivlasoft. What section allows  you to choose sid stars  runways. Does it select a runway for you? I didn't know about this lol

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zoran,

It doesn't work like Aivlasoft EFB, which is a flight tracking program rather than a flight planner as SimBrief is.

In SimBrief, the SIDs/STARs will be part of the actual flight plan itself (look down in the lower right part of the screen), but they really aren't important for runway selection.  As you may know, in Europe a SID or STAR is tied to a runway, but the runway selection is the determining factor for what SID/STAR will be used rather than the other way around.

This matter even less in most places in the US because SIDs/STARs are based more on direction rather than runway selection.

There are a few exceptions to the US/Europe SID/STAR selection, but the rule holds true for the vast majority of airports.

I hope this is helpful.  Best wishes.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Zoran,

It doesn't work like Aivlasoft EFB, which is a flight tracking program rather than a flight planner as SimBrief is.

In SimBrief, the SIDs/STARs will be part of the actual flight plan itself (look down in the lower right part of the screen), but they really aren't important for runway selection.  As you may know, in Europe a SID or STAR is tied to a runway, but the runway selection is the determining factor for what SID/STAR will be used rather than the other way around.

This matter even less in most places in the US because SIDs/STARs are based more on direction rather than runway selection.

There are a few exceptions to the US/Europe SID/STAR selection, but the rule holds true for the vast majority of airports.

I hope this is helpful.  Best wishes.

 

 

Thanks that clarifys it 😊

Very good information! 

Aivlasoft however is the complete package with a ton of info at your fingertips. But its not cheap. I think they may have a demo

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, zmak said:

Thanks that clarifys it 😊

Very good information! 

Aivlasoft however is the complete package with a ton of info at your fingertips. But its not cheap. I think they may have a demo

 

You are most welcome my friend.

I agree!  I use the Aivlasoft EFB on all my flights.

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really important to use the DESC FORECAST page with the NGX - ESPECIALLY if you have a tailwind component or there is particularly high pressure at the destination. A high QNH will mean you could be more than 1000ft high the moment you switch away from STD baro setting. Completing this page will adjust for both these conditions. Completing this en route (using "DESCENT" winds shown in your flight plan) will mean you will rarely, if ever get this message.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/31/2017 at 0:28 PM, Gregg_Seipp said:

I think we've drifted off topic here.  One thing I'd absolutely do is to load up the NGX with that flightplan and STAR and verify that all the altitude restrictions and legs are right...which you should be doing.  Also, make a note of what altitude and speed you're hitting the points at as you come down.  Also, if you get a message that drag is required then, by all means, deploy the speedbrake while the engines are idle.  Point is, do whatever it reasonably takes to keep the airplane in VNAV PATH and, if it gets off it, get it back on it.  Things get dicey on STARs like this, coming in on VNAV SPD.

In answer to your follow-on question, no, the NGX is not that difficult to get down, most times.  But, sometimes it needs assistance.  The good news is that, once you learn how to handle it well, you should have a sense of accomplishment...learning what all those messages and indicators mean and how to respond to them.

Thankfully this thread was created, cause I had a lot of trouble descending into Newark (flight on Friday from Seattle).

I had to ride the speedbrake HARD on the way down. 50%, for a good while.  I finally had to go off course for a bit just to reduce my decent rate, thereby slowing the aircraft down.

I was cursing a bit and scratching my head as to why this was so difficult.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites