11.05r2 is out

[Paraffin 2,197]

45 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Has Ben/LR mentioned anything about threading or using more than just a single CPU core?  Almost all other platforms these days are working multiple CPU cores and it shows with their better performance.  I'm patiently waiting for XP11.10 as there clearly is a visual feast hiding in XP11 and I hope it can one day be realized on my system.

Yep, spreading the overall optimization across multi-cores is something they're working on. Here's something Ben posted in one of the dev blogs from May of this year:

Quote

X-Plane uses multiple cores both to load background scenery as you fly and to speed up some calculations within a frame. As of now, the major "per frame" multi-core computations are:

The flight model (if you have more than one aircraft - we can't multi-core a single plane).

DSF scenery maintenance (not super expensive, but does get multi-core acceleration).

Car computation (typically uses 1-2 cores at most).

FFT water calculations for the next frame (uses up to four cores).

And further down:

Quote

This is just an incremental step for multi-core use; we have been steadily adding more multi-core work for the last few years, and we'll be adding more in future X-Plane 11 updates. For example, X-Plane 10.50 re-structured the renderer, separating the work of discovering what to draw ("culling") from the work of actually drawing. In X-Plane 11, we can do that culling on multiple cores, improving total framerate.

Here's the full dev blog post, which is an interesting read (and btw, the fact that the Laminar devs actually post this stuff. is one reason I like this sim, over others like P3D or FSW where the internal development is more opaque):

http://developer.x-plane.com/2017/05/three-performance-optimizations-for-x-plane-11-02/

[KNOSSOS 122]

9 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

External views are however often much better on the FPS front where I can get to my preferred 30 FPS goal.  The 1/2 refresh rate via NCP was working in prior builds, but 11.05r2 seems to have broken that or nVidia driver issue?  It's the VC (even in default aircraft) that seems to be the real drag on performance.

The problem is in "HDR+SSAO" option. Actually VC doesn't render with SSAO (I see no differences at all in VC) but this option is very FPS hungry in VC view. Using only HDR solve the problem for me. 

 

[strider1 575]

46 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I don't want to get into a debate about X vs. Y ... I'd rather just focus on making XP11 perform better at 4K resolution.   I get acceptable external FPS, but as soon as enter the VC, FPS drops by almost 60% or more ... weather is CAVOK.  The puzzling part is my GPU (TitanXP), with 4XSSAA and PBR at 3840 x 2160, should be the bottleneck, but it's not?   The GPU is hovering around 50% utilization but my CPU is at 100% utilization on Core 0 (next to nothing on the other cores).  

4X SSAA usage in other platforms (at 4K res) and I see my GPU utilization close to 80-100% (as I would expect) in extreme weather conditions (lots of clouds, rain, etc.).  So my only conclusion is that XP11 is doing a lot more software rendering (CPU based) which probably should be shifted over to the GPU side ... I'm hoping XP11.10 use of Vulkan API will significantly shift the work load OFF the CPU and onto the GPU ... that's my hope anyway (and native support for 30Hz monitors).

Has Ben/LR mentioned anything about threading or using more than just a single CPU core?  Almost all other platforms these days are working multiple CPU cores and it shows with their better performance.  I'm patiently waiting for XP11.10 as there clearly is a visual feast hiding in XP11 and I hope it can one day be realized on my system.

Cheers, Rob.

I just tried 4xssaa+fxaa with objects one notch below max and I am getting 30+ fps in Van Nuys area ! What strange is going above 2xSSAA+FXAA always killed my FPS. Maybe take look at your drivers and Nvidia Control Panel.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, KNOSSOS said:

Actually VC doesn't render with SSAO (I see no differences at all in VC) but this option is very FPS hungry in VC view.

Not sure I understand you, if SSAO isn't rendered in the VC, why would it be FPS hungry?  HDR+SSAO works reasonably well externally, so I' puzzled?

31 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

spreading the overall optimization across multi-cores is something they're working on

Good news, I'll post a video later of multi-core usage so you can see realtime.

Cheers, Rob.

[KNOSSOS 122]

8 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Not sure I understand you, if SSAO isn't rendered in the VC, why would it be FPS hungry?

I think this is a bug.

 

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

My experience with 4K 60hz seems to be different than what some are reporting here. My visuals in either XP11 or P3d4 are quite acceptable using a "lowly" GTX1080. That is unless I start putting additional demands  on the GPU by using higher levels of AA that add little to the image quality. Either my eyesight is failing or I have a serious lack of discrimination as to what's acceptable and what isn't.

I disagree that XP11 has fallen behind other flight sims as to performance and I stand behind my previous post regarding the futility of comparing various flight sims in a standardized fashion.

[Humpty 751]

12 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Do you have a link to where Ben provided this information, I don't recall ever seeing LR suggest this?  It would seem a rather strange comment for them to make?  I don't run max sliders (objects not maxed - 1 notch down, shadows off, 4XSSAA) and I'm at 11 FPS in default aircraft with default scenery in the VC in a low population density area.  CPU 0 is maxed out at 100% (cores 1 - 9 at < 5%), GPU about 50% ... I understand XP11 doesn't leverage multi-threading ... perhaps that will change in the XP11.10 release, I hope so (I have many add-ons invested in XP11).

If that is going to be the case (no intention to have good VC performance at 4K res), then I guess I better hope LR bring back the "advanced" graphics settings via the UI so that I don't have to use Lua scripts for temporary changes every time I start XP11 to reduce graphics settings not available via the standard UI.  If you look at the various XP11 forums, it's rather obvious the majority of threads are about performance and how to improve it (and this is not all 4K res users), so I'm guessing LR is aware of the issue with FPS and hence their road map to 11.10 with Vulkan API.

I'm not going to enter into a debate about 4K users and what percentage of the Flight Sim users operate at 4K, Steam is not a valid source of information on hardware for this market and I'm not really aware of any survey's done regarding 4K user base in this market and it honestly doesn't matter ... that's why I doubt LR would suggest 4K is not a user audience they are interested in given the cost of 4K monitors is now below $300 mark and 8K monitors will soon (2018 and 2019) be replacing 4K.  Any technolgoy that makes one's product look better is something one will want to support, be it higher monitor resolution, better GPUs, better CPU, better APIs, or VR.

External views are however often much better on the FPS front where I can get to my preferred 30 FPS goal.  The 1/2 refresh rate via NCP was working in prior builds, but 11.05r2 seems to have broken that or nVidia driver issue?  It's the VC (even in default aircraft) that seems to be the real drag on performance.

I'll admit, from a programmers perspective, I don't really understand why XP11 doesn't list support for 30Hz (not even in the "Custom" option) ... just a refresh rate and the graphics engine should operate independent of it (I'm not aware of OpenGL being tied to a refresh rate).

My original comment wasn't intended to be a debate about 4K, just letting a user know that this build 11.05r2 produced a Green Screen when I attempted to force my desktop settings which are 4K @ 30Hz. Hitting my target FPS of 30 is doable, but it just means turning a lot of what makes XP11 look good, OFF, which is self defeating as I'd like more control on what I want On/Off.  I can also hit 60 FPS, but the visuals are so poor, I may as well be flying FSX.   (keep in mind this is without IXEG loaded, without PMDG DC6, without Carenado loaded, without Aerosoft airports, without xEnviro, and not in an OrthoXP location).

I'm not trying to be negative towards XP11, it can produce some great screenshots (so long as I don't include the FPS counter), but for 4K video I have to dial so much back to get acceptable (30) FPS that other platforms look better and do more.  Telling me/users that I should NOT be using 4K is "not" going to make people want to buy XP11.  I can tolerate compromises, I do with all my other flight sim platforms (I know how to get the most out of my simulators) ... does XP11 PBR and night lighting look better than any other simulator, YES!  Absolutely looks fantastic.  Day time flights (especially mountain regions) look great as well (once one dials back the exaggerated haze/visibility).  But XP11 is so far behind in performance relative to other platforms than telling users (if this is accurate) they shouldn't be running anything above 1080p is just not gonna work, short term or long term.

I'm hoping the use of the Vulkan API, addition of multi-threading for distributed core processing, and the addition of an "Advanced" graphics settings UI to provide more fine tuned control over render complexity will solve the FPS problems around XP11 ... and will come to XP11.10 and onwards.

Cheers, Rob.

The latest update has some fps drops.

What i can suggest is reduce extended .dsf , i use a .lua script for that and it does show the difference

[Murmur 3,941]

For the record, 11.10 will not feature Vulkan, although it will feature performance improvements. Vulkan is a mid-term goal, still many months from now.

 

[kakusso 12]

To have good performance at 4K, (30+FPS with default aircraft), antialiasing should be set to a minimum, everything else except shadows can be set to max. Even if the GPU isn't at max with AA enabled, reducing it has a significant impact.

None of my CPU cores is at 100% the same goes for the graphics card. Strangely X-Plane doesn't force the GPU to run at max frequency. I had to overclock it to make it run at 2035Mhz where it would run at 1900Mhz.

I7 7700K - GTX1080

Edit: Anisotropic filtering can be set to 16x in Nvidia control panel to compensate for no AA in X-Plane graphics settings.

[deetee 164]

My setup runs 4k quite well, but HDR+SSAO knocks quite a chunk out of frame rates, so I keep it one notch left on HDR. Not sure if SSAO makes a lot of difference eye candy wise. I keep world objects down a notch from full too, and can overfly Aerosoft EGLL + London + complex aircraft with a respectable fluidity. That's more than I can say for P3D v4 whose frames are absolutely crippled by the same area. 

[Patriot3810 182]

my framerates stayed the same, but my load time increased alot on my ryzen 1800x,i use process lasso for all my programs, not that it matters, i have everything on high accept for textures which are uncompressed,it works great.

[CaptCWGAllen 49]

On 8/29/2017 at 6:49 PM, Rob Ainscough said:

  It would seem a rather strange comment for them to make?  I don't run max sliders (objects not maxed - 1 notch down, shadows off, 4XSSAA) and I'm at 11 FPS in default aircraft with default scenery in the VC in a low population density area. 

Hi Rob,

I have posted a few pics here of New York and graphic settings -I'm getting about 30 fps as you will see in the screen shots - so not sure what is going on with your settings. Add-ons are Carenado 208, SkyMaxx, DD Design New York, Ortho 4XP. 4k monitor @ 60hz

 

[sparkie66 81]

11 hours ago, Patriot3810 said:

my framerates stayed the same, but my load time increased alot on my ryzen 1800x,i use process lasso for all my programs, not that it matters, i have everything on high accept for textures which are uncompressed,it works great.

Every calculation by the fms in the ixeg stalls xp11 for several seconds now. Anyone else experience this?

[Janov 2,383]

1 hour ago, sparkie66 said:

Every calculation by the fms in the ixeg stalls xp11 for several seconds now. Anyone else experience this?

Antivirus program interfering. Go to the support forums for further explanation.

Jan

 

[sparkie66 81]

3 hours ago, Janov said:

Antivirus program interfering. Go to the support forums for further explanation.

Jan

 

I never have AV on when simming