P3Dv4 multiscreen performance

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Hello all,

I have just upgraded my rig with two new GPUs ... 1 x Gigabyte Aorus GTX1080 ti Extreme 11gb and 1 x Zotac GTX 1050ti 4gb. these are not SLI'd

I have kept (temporarily for financial reasons) my motherboard, CPU and RAM although I have upgraded to 32MB  in the RAM department.

I have finally managed to download and install P3Dv4.

Ok, now heres the thing LOL

First running P3d without any tweaks or addons but with sliders set to fairly high I tried a flight in the trusty Baron 58 and using my 6 monitors the BEST FPS I managed was a speedy 9 FPS ... yes 9 .... the FPS rate actually got down to a not so speedy 3 at one stage but remained  smooth as silk LOL.  At that rate I was able to make and enjoy a cuppa tea between frames  After three cuppas though, I had moved the aircraft about three feet on the taxiway and was tempted to turn it all off and retire, crying to my bedroom. The other alternative was large (very large) am.ounts of alcohol ... variety not really relevant.

I know PTA is available (at a price) and if I turn off 5 monitors, P3D performs well with no complaints. My oft stated problem is that I really do enjoy using my six monitors and am very reluctant to downgrade which is what I repeat I regard it as. I am very unsure that upgrading to Z170 motherboard,  DDR4 RAM and CPU (i7-7700k) is going to ensure my continuing to use 6 monitors satisfactorily as I cannot see vast amounts of performance increase. Any ideas on that please.

My next thought is to turn to Trackir. a few questions here.  

1. Does Trackir have a performance relevancy/impact? and,

2.  Can i adjust Trackir to only operate horizontally. The idea being to reduce monitors to 4 and still utilize two portrait mode displays and a landscape mode display for instruments (ie overhead fwd and aft) aft Elec Panel and a throttle quadrant/FMS  display and all for Boeing 737. I would still want to look up and down at these monitors without affecting the horizontal display.

I am unsure if this next is actually an option or not...

Networked computers. I have an old computer which could be put to use, but, .... if I cannot get a very basic P3Dv4 working at a decent rate, what, if anything, can I offload to the second computer to improve performane.  I believe ORBX and other sceneries can be offloaded but at the moment there are no add-ons to be affected.

The next option is obviously VR and at approximately USD400 and 600 this is probably cheaper than upgrading all my displays (not that they are ready for upgrade) All the displays, by the way, are 1080p.and certainly cheaper than the VGU's recently purchased. As an Aged Aussie pensioner, finances are tight and may well dictate me staying with FS2004 which is absolutely flying with the new GPUs but the graphics are not good, draw distances are terrible and new software releases are at a woeful rate. I look and dribble at screenshots of P3Dv4 and, indeed, XPlane.

I would dearly love some advice here on all aspects of this topic and I thank any contributor in advance.

Regards to all

Tony Chilcott

 

 

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Hello to all,

Is there really NOBODY who can offer any advice on this topic or these questions?

Looking back over the years, I have pursued this aspect of our hobby/passion, (multi screen) I have noticed that almost invariably, simmers become turtle-like and retreat back ino their shells when "confronted with this problem.

I admit I am VERY much aware that there are not many of us who are into  multiple screens  and perhaps the incredibly poor performance is the very reason for the lack of users and therefore the lack of response to requests either for informtion or help. I am very unsure of the reasons but am very sure of the lack of response. I remember back in about 2010, I did some research in in a fairly large number of multiple screen queries there were in excess of 1400 views and a total of six replies, at least four of which openly stated they knew very little about the subject but at least offered advice on where to go (and they put THAT nicely LOL) Without further research, I would guess that little has changed.

However, there were questions about networking, Trackir and VR in the thread and not one of these has raised a response either.

As many of you know, I really do appreciate the help and advice I get on this site,

I am looking forward to some help here too.

Regards to all

Tony

[A340Bangla 40]

Short answer ?

I am running 3 x 1920x1080 - only outside views on a 6700k oc's to 4.5 GHz with 2 x GTX980ti's and I am getting 25 fps in regular scenery. As soon its an a bit more complex add-on, frames drop, sometimes considerably.

So, I think, running 6 screens (not yet talking about your hardware is) - ??? lets say hard to figure.

 

[MarkDH 234]

If you could be more concise and drop the jokey asides it would be easier to see what you're asking. I (like many) run three screens with no problems but performance is always an issue. Six screens sounds optimistic at best but it depends on what you're doing with them (again, it's hard to tell). With super wide-screen displays you will suffer distorted views even if you keep the zoom to realistic levels, presuming you run Surround views. Two independent Surround views on different cards seems like another marginal decision so you would be in uncharted territory, both for performance and reliability. I don't have P3D so I don't now what hit you get from multi-window views rather than Surround views. (In XP11 there seems to be little overhead in doing it this way and visually it is significantly better.) Maybe you're using some screens for 2D windows (you don't say).

TrackIR in my experience has little noticeable overhead. Yes, you can switch off or de-emphasize the pitch axis (or any axis).

You can't 'offload' Orx sceneries to another PC. Some addons can run bits of themselves remotely so it depends what addons you have. This doesn't so much inrease your performance as limit the performance hit when you add addons. If you want to use 2D displays you can run them remotely with a program like Air Manager.

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Mark DH,

Thank you so much for your reply and OK, in a nutshell, my response.

I can get 50 FPS using 6 screens (all 1080p) in a fully loaded FS2004.  FPS in P3Dv4  is 9 FPS and 3 FPS the worst.maximum (no scenery, no addons, no tweaks - just stock standard P3Dv4.

I do not use surround views ..., My three outside views/screens which, I assume, draw more resources) are plugged into my 1080ti and the instrument panels, which are not constantly changing, and, I assume, do not draw as many resources, are plugged into the 1050ti The three instrument panels are indeed 2D pop-up screens undocked to different screens. The conversation about ORBX  has not even come into the equation as yet...see above re addons.

I understand that sort of performance using 6 screens in FSX, FSX-SE and P3D is "Normal" I was just commenting on that  aspect, although knowing why FSX or P3D needs so much, in comparison, would be nice.

To my knowledge, XPlane 11 do not support that many monitors, although they do support a similar triplehead2go concept (3 screens) with provision for another monitor for a cockpit panel/screen.  They are, however still working on the multiple screen concept. 

FS2004, FSX, FSX-SE and P3D (all versions) are the only simulations which do, as far as I know, in fact, support the multiple screens concept fully.

However, really the only question I posed in that section, was regarding ideas about the performance difference with an upgrade from my current specs to an I7-7700, Z170 motherboard and DDR4 RAM.

Your response to the Trackir question was very relevant and informative This may well be a viable option if I HAVE to downgrade to a lesser number of screens.

Are 2D pop-up screens the only viable option for networking 2 computers?

Can you, or anybody else comment on performance with VR and P3Dv4. I accept that most people were talking about needing 90 FPS to get acceptable results. Is this still true today even with the low resolutions offered, thus far, by the headset manufacturers?

Regarding the "jokey asides", that is simply my style of writing and I try to inject some humour into everything I say and do. With all due respect, that is something I have absolutely no wish to change, nor to apologise for.

A340Bangla,

Thank you, too for your response. I have been told this many many times and, sadly, you are dead right.  I have to admit, I held out very high hopes for the 64bit P3D4 which, do not look as if they have come to fruition. The really sad aspect to this is the fact that I have bought each and every flight sim platform on the market chasing this dream.  Sadly, in some respects, FS2004 is the only platform that has met and exceeded my expectations. It has, however, had its day, as far as third party developers generally speaking, are concerned. Unfortunately, I am as old as FS2004 feels but will be  more than happy to continue flying with that platform if it remains the only one with the multiple screen ability that I enjoy.

This not to say that I have or am going to give up... There has to be a way.

Thanks again to both of you

Cdsheers

Tony

[AnkH 2,261]

You are aware that today, no software and certainly not P3D can make use of two graphic cards in a combination you have? My simple guess is: your P3D actually uses the 1050Ti instead of the 1080Ti, or even worse, the iGPU, that's why your FPS are terrible. There is NO benefit from having a 1050Ti alongside your 1080Ti in your rig, why did you chose such a setup?

[MarkDH 234]

I run XP-11 with three independent VC views and one additional view for the GPS. I haven't tried six screens but the documentation says 'X-Plane allows the use of any number of screens to depict anything you like'. It doesn't seem to make much sense that there would be an arbitrary limit of four screens. 

In my previous comments about networking I was not referring to 2D pop-up screens. FSX can't run pop-up screens on another computer and I would bet P3D can't either. You need a separate application to run 2D panels that can synchronise with FSX. This generally means you have to be able to choose matching gauges from a stock library and build the panel yourself. Air Manager (which I mentioned) comes with a lot of stock gauges, many of which are for common aircraft. It also has some pre-built panels. You can edit stock gauges to change the behaviour or create your own from scratch.

[MarkDH 234]

7 hours ago, AnkH said:

There is NO benefit from having a 1050Ti alongside your 1080Ti in your rig, why did you chose such a setup?

Er, because he wanted to run more than four screens?

[AnkH 2,261]

How should that work? You can not tell the computer to use the 1080Ti to render the image and give it out via the 1050Ti, this is simply impossible. If your graphic card does not support the number of monitors you want, there are other solutions, such as Matrox TripleHead2Go.

[MarkDH 234]

11 minutes ago, AnkH said:

If your graphic card does not support the number of monitors you want, there are other solutions, such as Matrox TripleHead2Go.

Or you can install a second graphics card. This is not controversial, Windows supports multiple graphics cards running alongside each other. For years I had a GTX 670 and a GT 120 in my PC, running five monitors in FSX.

[Freaknout 11]

9 minutes ago, MarkDH said:

Or you can install a second graphics card. This is not controversial, Windows supports multiple graphics cards running alongside each other. For years I had a GTX 670 and a GT 120 in my PC, running five monitors in FSX.

Could this gent be looking at a configuration issue then? I don't believe he's mentioned how this is all configured?

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Hello all,

First let me say that these responses are most gratifying and I thank you all for your replies.

AnkH

I have just one question for your response. How on earth can any on board Graphics unit (whatever spec it is) automatically handle 6 monitors. It is my belief that you have to connect them all and my onboard graphics only allow 1 x HDMI and 1 x VGA connection.

The reason for this choice is/was simple. I have used this configuration since about 2006 or 2007. firstly with 2 x gt9800s which were upgraded to AMD 4870s then 6970s and finally 2 x R9 290s These upgrades were initially chasing a working multiple screen for FSX (unsuccessful) FSX-SE (unsuccessful) P3Dv2, v3 (unsuccessful) and now v4.

Through all these upgrades FS2004, FPS and graphics, has simply improved with each upgrade. I have now (as stated) upgraded to the Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080ti extreme and the Zotac GTX 1050 ti ad FS2004 is now giving me 50FPS on ground at YBBN. P3Dv4 is giving me the figures given above.

In essence, I think you may be wrong in saying that no sim can use this configuration. I mean this with NO disrespect.

Your second comment regarding telling the 1080 to render the image and give it out to the 1050 I simply do not understand.

My configuration is that I have 3 x displays ...VC cockpit, 2 x VC cockpits rotated .and moved in and out respectively, to eliminate the window frames etc to just leave the outsde view. ... These screens are connected to the 1080, largely because they will draw more resources from the GPU. The other three screens are configured as 1 x forward and aft overhead panel, 1 x FMS/Lower DU and 1 x Aft Electrical Pedestal panel connected to the 105, largely because they are displays that are not constantly changing and therefore draw less resources from the GPU, This is all set up for the IFly Boeing 737 BBJ3 Cockpit

 MarkDH

I would really like to pursue your statement regarding XPlane allows the use of any number of displays and may do so (if I may via a PM) as I have xPlane 11 too, although I have not pursued that with any real enthusiasm as yet. 

I also have a triplehead2go digital version which I used temporarily for FS2004 so I am aware of just what that can do. I have not yet tried that with the current configuration.

Freaknout

I hope the above clarifies configuration for you. For further information the 1080 is driving 1  x 60inch 1080p HD LED TV and 2 x 32inch 1080p HD LED TVs

The 1050 is driving 1 x 40inch 1080p HD LED TV (portrait mode), 1 x 22inch LED Monitor and one x 24inch LED monitor (portrait mode) 

If you have any inkling that I am doing something wrong, PLEASE PLEASE let me know,Any further contributions, comments or suggestions are very welcome and indeed, requested.

Thanks again 

Regards to all

Tony

[A340Bangla 40]

I normally fly airbus in a Project Magenta setup where all instruments are outsourced to other computers and  the main server is only showing the 3 outside views in a view group arrangement. Everything is controlled by external hardware and the planes have no cockpit files. This arrangement is giving me fps which are acceptable to me and still allow manual landing.

However, sometimes I get the urge to fly something totally different, like the Carenado Caravan or the Realair Duke. For this purpose, I have installed simplugins https://simplugins.com/index.html which makes it possible to run the instruments on another computer. I simply hide the cockpits in those planes and that worked OK in 3.4. Being still in the process of migration to V4, I have not tried that out in V4 yet.

 

[himmelhorse 1,276]

A340Bangla,

Hello again, and thank you.

Apologies to you for not recognising your previous contribution. I did however respond to you but it never got sent for some reason and when I came here just now I had to clear my initial response to input this. So again, apologies.

I know very little about the sim plugin that you just cited and am unsure about  what it does. However, I did read that one can include up top 12 instruments in one panel.  I am therefore quite confused which may be attributed  to my aged and feeble mind. 

I am actually talking about 2d pop up panels which are dockable and undockable. In the IFly 737, for instance, I click on views..instrument panel..then click on the panel I want ,ie aft overhead panel. This brings up a screen of the aft overhead panel which I can then undock. In this case it undocks to my 40inch LED TV (portrait mode). I then select from the views/instrument panel the fwd overhead panel and undock to the same 40inch TV. I then re-size both to fill, proportionately, the entire screen. Then, after I have selected the throttle quadrant and undocked that to the 22inch screen (and this extends through to the 24 inch screen so that the FMSs fill the entire 22inch screen ) I then undock the aft electrical panel and over lay that to fill the 24inch (portrait mode) screen. This configuration is then saved in "save flight" and I can simply start my flight by selecting that saved flight,

So, in essence, I don't really know what the simplugin programme defines as instruments, but I do feel that this is not a plug in that I require. Another aspect, is that as I am running the VC cockpit on my 60 inch screen I have no need to move or enlarge instruments (ie MFD ND etc) as they are very legible on the screen in front of me.

Also, before everyone rightly jumps on me, I am aware that overlapping docked screens has an impact on FPS. 

I guess, to summarize, I am talking about dockable pop-up screens and not Instruments as such. 

I would also like to point out that this set up is very, very 737, 777, specific and I hope to follow up with TDI 717 and FSlabs Airbus in much the same way.

For GA I only require 3 screens which would be the VC cockpit and the two side view screens. FPS using only three screens may well give me acceptable frame rates. I do not, however fly GA very often at all, so I have not tested that aspect. 

If in fact, that did happen, what would the effect be if I connected my triplehead2go to the VC and the two side screens, one TH2Go to my two portrait screens and just leave the FMS screen as is. My reasoning tells me that the total screen resolution remains the same and therefore the draw on resources does not change either, despite only plugging in three Monitors as far as the GPUs are concerned. Clarification on that would be great. Anyone?

I really do not know if or what further information anyone needs, but please just ask. Obviously it is in my interests to give everyone as much information as I can.

Thanfks again and..

Regards to all

Tony

Edited September 2, 2017 by himmelhorse
I felt that I had to clarify the meaning in Para 3 to make a little more sense

[AnkH 2,261]

Might be that I am wrong. Let's start differently: what GPU is indicated inside P3Dv4? I mean, in my case, I have the 1080Ti indicated in the graphics menue to be the main GPU used. What does your setup tell? I mean, although it might be possible that you can combine such graphics card in regard of getting more monitor connections, it still has to be the 1080Ti doing the rendering. Just be aware that all earlier combinations you are mentioning were a combination of two identical graphics cards (2x9800, 2x4790, 2x6790 then 2xR9 290). All I am basically trying to tell you: if you have not the 1080Ti doing the rendering, lower FPS might be explained. And it would be certainly be in such low numbers, if your iGPU is doing all the rendering and you are basically unawarely using the two GPUs only for giving out the image to your monitors. Simple as that.

People tend to misjudge their multi-GPU setup due to the fact that one or the other GPU is already providing sufficiently FPS. For example in your case: if you run FS2004 with above combination, you would get your 50FPS already if only the 1050Ti does 100% of the rendering. You might even get nice FPS, even if your iGPU would do all the rendering. But certainly not in P3D.

I read already here in the forums advice from some guy using two 1080 in SLI, that he gets better performance in P3D when selecting only one 1080, and he did not realize that he basically de-activated SLI by doing so.

Verdict: why not posting a screenshot of your P3D settings? I am pretty sure that we can find the issue pretty fast...