Is the QWSim 787 release closer after paintkit release?

[fluffyflops 1,856]

5 hours ago, Lenny777 said:

MS Flight Simulator X? What's that?

Couldn't agree more.  Am I right in thinking you can't even install fsx anymore because the activation server has been shut down??  

[AnkH 2,261]

I do not really see a reasonable reason why one should release an addon first for FSX in 2017. But then, it was developed for this platform and I somehow understand that they did not completely abandon the development for this platform. But, as others mentioned: I doubt that there will be a great number of sales for FSX...

[ErichB 3,640]

3 hours ago, Paul_ said:

Now I might be completely wrong here but Quality Wings are exhibiting at the forthcoming UK Flight Simulator Show at RAF Cosford on October 7th 

This could hopefully be the perfect timing for the flagship launch of the 787!!! 

 

Sounds sensible and appropriate.

[GHarrall 494]

I don't understand any "FSX first" development at this point.

Personally, I would love to see the RJ / 146 pack updated for P3d v4. I would pay too but it seems QW have no interest in doing anything with it at this point. 

[AnkH 2,261]

23 minutes ago, GHarrall said:

I don't understand any "FSX first" development at this point.

At the time they started the development of the 787, FSX was still the leading platform. And honestly, I doubt what I have written above. Yes, the flightsim enthusiastics might have moved on to P3Dv4 or at least P3Dv3, but I guess hundreds of general FS pilots still use FSX. At least when clicking through support forums of HiFi, REX and ORBX, still a to me surprising amount of people obviously still using FSX or FSX:SE.

[regis9 4,013]

3 hours ago, AnkH said:

But, as others mentioned: I doubt that there will be a great number of sales for FSX...

Hopefully that will light a fire under them to get the p3d version out quickly then.

While there may still be a number of people using FSX, i have to think that most people who are willing to pay $60-$80 for an aircraft without batting an eye are serious enough simmers to have moved on from FSX a long time ago, or at least recently with the release of v4.

[ckyliu 1,749]

I think more than 50% of its sales will still be on FSX for the first year at least; there was a straw poll last year on the Aerosoft forums (who's regular users will typically be the more hardcore simmers) and the balance was almost 50/50 http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/115546-annual-poll-on-platform/

It's easier to build something for FSX (bearing in mind the long development timeframes for these addons, the P3D uptake would've been a lot lower when they started a few years ago too) and then upgrade it to P3D rather than vice-versa. Also because P3D is still changing, in the time the QW787 has taken we've gone from P3Dv2 to v4, FSX provides a static development platform.

I'm a serious simmer but I've not yet switched to P3D as I didn't consider the advantages worth the hassle and cost (there's crazy pricing/policies from some developers), I always said I'd wait until 64 bit (which is why I'm reading this now, as I'm looking at what will be compatible) was stable and had most of my stuff ported across. It also looked like DTG FSW might be the future for a short time, but then they annoyed all the third party developers...

[Chock 17,769]

On 9/11/2017 at 1:42 PM, ckyliu said:

I think more than 50% of its sales will still be on FSX for the first year at least; there was a straw poll last year on the Aerosoft forums (who's regular users will typically be the more hardcore simmers) and the balance was almost 50/50 http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/115546-annual-poll-on-platform/

It's easier to build something for FSX (bearing in mind the long development timeframes for these addons, the P3D uptake would've been a lot lower when they started a few years ago too) and then upgrade it to P3D rather than vice-versa. Also because P3D is still changing, in the time the QW787 has taken we've gone from P3Dv2 to v4, FSX provides a static development platform.

I'm a serious simmer but I've not yet switched to P3D as I didn't consider the advantages worth the hassle and cost (there's crazy pricing/policies from some developers), I always said I'd wait until 64 bit (which is why I'm reading this now, as I'm looking at what will be compatible) was stable and had most of my stuff ported across. It also looked like DTG FSW might be the future for a short time, but then they annoyed all the third party developers...

A poll which took place last year would not reflect the current situation, there was no 64 bit ESP based sim at that point apart from DTG's Flight School, which was really more in the nature of an experiment than a serious stab at a new long-term platform, but now there two: P3D V4 and FSW (albeit not fully released yet).

It's certainly true that when QW commenced development, FSX-SE was looking like the main target platform, and it is still in widespread use, but I think it has been apparent for a while that uptake of P3D is changing that significantly since its V4 64 bit incarnation has made the switch worth doing for high end add-on users.

DTG 'annoyed all the third party developers', where are you getting that nonsense from? There are loads of TPDs working with DTG. FSW even got its first official TPD content released last week, and it isn't even out of Early Access yet.

[duckbilled 310]

Just took a very non-scientific look at the FSX forum vs the P3D forum focusing on threads with their last post in the in the past 24 hours: FSX 8, P3D 23. Of course, I don't have the forum stats, but it looks like a lot of the activity has switched to P3D. I switched from FSX to P3D in July.

QW probably has the FSX version almost ready to go, and it may have been in that state for a while. If it is almost ready for release, it makes sense that they would release that version first. While FSX sales will probably be lower than expected, at least it feeds cash flow while they get the P3D version ready. Also, getting a quality product to the community as fast as possible will help create buzz and might drive P3D sales once that version is released.

I'd still be on FSX, or maybe transitioning to XP11 if P3D didn't go 64bit. Also, the adoption of P3DV4 by developers like FSDT and FlyTampa helped me decide where I wanted to go next. I didn't make that decision until their joint statement was released and FSUIPC V5 was announced. To me, these two events solidified P3D as the future for most enthusiasts. It is possible that QW didn't know which way things were going until then as well. 

[ckyliu 1,749]

46 minutes ago, Chock said:

DTG 'annoyed all the third party developers', where are you getting that nonsense from? There are loads of TPDs working with DTG. FSW even got its first official TPD content released last week, and it isn't even out of Early Access yet.

Well we're going off-topic but as you asked the question: I read somewhere (here's something similar) that PMDG and some other big names were working quite closely with DTG until fairly recently then got frozen out the process and DTG insisted third party addons be sold through their Steam channels, which seemed to annoy quite a few big name developers (not just PMDG cited above).

I'm aware that a poll nearly 12 months old reflects the situation 12 months ago, I can use a calendar. But v4 has only been out a shade over 3 months and many popular addons are still unported, so I don't think everyone has suddenly ditched FSX. Anyway age is the least of that surveys problems, it's just a straw poll of some forum users I used for illustration, it's hardly definitive; I refer back to my original point that the vast majority of flight sim users are not going to be contributing to forums such as this or Aerosoft so you can't base user share off of them (effectively we live in a little bubble which is more likely to be using P3D)

[Chock 17,769]

On 9/11/2017 at 2:48 PM, ckyliu said:

Well we're going off-topic but as you asked the question: I read somewhere (here's something similar) that PMDG and some other big names were working quite closely with DTG until fairly recently then got frozen out the process and DTG insisted third party addons be sold through their Steam channels, which seemed to annoy quite a few big name developers.

Bit off topic, but don't worry, it goes back on topic below...

Nah, that one is ancient history, and was based on a fallacy anyway. But as with many such rumours, people repeat them, which perpetuates them, and internet forums always make good rumour mills as we know.

But the actual evidence just does not bear the rumour out: You've got A2A, Simul, Orbx, Just Flight, Turbulent Design, Carenado etc all involved with DTG's FSW, and JF are currently helping out on finalising the SDK for FSW to streamline the TPD process and ensure it is suited to modern development methods. JF  sell way more stuff than most other TPDs and have been responsible for creating tons of it themselves too, with their recent GA efforts receiving high praise from most people, so they'd hardly be pushing a product which was going to shut the door on their own business if there was any truth in that 'you have to sell through Steam' nonsense. Common sense ought to make that clear enough, but as noted, when did common sense ever stop a rumour?

Yeah PMDG can sometimes get vocal about stuff, they were the same when MS Flight came out when it was suggested that DLC would be handled exclusively through MS. But as much as I like many PMDG products, I'm not one of those who goes 'oh my gosh, PMDG have spoken!' the moment RR makes mention of anything. If A2A and JF are on board that's indicative of which way the wind is blowing, and lets face it, they've made vastly more varied products and act as brokers for many more too - and in the case of A2A - made quite a lot of better aeroplanes than PMDG anyway. Lot's of people argue about who is better, PMDG or FSL, whereas I say neither, A2A beat them both put together lol.

To demonstrate the truth of this all, I bought that latest Piper PA-28R Arrow III/IV for FSW off JF's website, so that 'you have to sell through Steam' stuff is clearly not the case, and it's not the case with UK2000's airports either, which have an FSW installer option, nor with FS Flight Control, which is also compatible with FSW.

Anyway, back on topic, there is of course another reason for QW to bang out the FSX version first, and it's a shrewd one too: Most people who have P3D V4 will be fairly serious simmers, who probably have FSX too, or more likely FSX-SE since it runs a bit better. And those 'serious simmers' will have wanted a 787 for years, so will they be able to resist hitting 'buy now' when it comes out for FSX, or will they wait? I'd say a fair few would hit 'buy now', and then when it comes out for P3D, they'll be having to buy it again (this is assuming it is not a free product upgrade, which isn't likely given the licensing differences, although hopefully it would not be a full price buy to get it again). Kerching! two sales instead of one, simply for holding back the P3D version a few weeks. Not a very charitable business approach, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't do that myself if I were in their shoes.

[ckyliu 1,749]

36 minutes ago, Chock said:

But as much as I like many PMDG products, I'm not one of those who goes 'oh my gosh, PMDG have spoken!' the moment RR makes mention of anything. If A2A and JF are on board that's indicative of which way the wind is blowing,

Oh gosh please don't lump me in with them; I get fed up of certain community personalities being regarded as demigods by some! But I don't participate in FS discussion boards very often so sometimes it's difficult to separate fact from fallacy or I have outdated info.

I was thinking of going P3Dv4 fairly soon, what you've done is muddied the waters again and make me consider waiting longer before switching to see what will be FSW compatible and at what price!

I agree with your point about most P3Ders still having FSX on hand and clamouring for a 787! Some developers have played that out very profitably....

[duckbilled 310]

55 minutes ago, Chock said:

Anyway, back on topic, there is of course another reason for QW to bang out the FSX version first, and it's a shrewd one too: Most people who have P3D V4 will be fairly serious simmers, who probably have FSX too, or more likely FSX-SE since it runs a bit better. And those 'serious simmers' will have wanted a 787 for years, so will they be able to resist hitting 'buy now' when it comes out for FSX, or will they wait? I'd say a fair few would hit 'buy now', and then when it comes out for P3D, they'll be having to buy it again (this is assuming it is not a free product upgrade, which isn't likely given the licensing differences, although hopefully it would not be a full price buy to get it again). Kerching! two sales instead of one, simply for holding back the P3D version a few weeks. Not a very charitable business approach, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't do that myself if I were in their shoes.

This is possible. I may be in the minority, but if the P3DV4 version is the full price or even more, I'm not buying the FSX version.

So if you are reading this QW, don't do what Chock said

[ukplane1 37]

They started the FSX version years ago makes sense that it will be released first.

 

If you jump out of your avsim bubble you'll realize alot of people still use FSX.

[Lenny777 299]

3 hours ago, ukplane1 said:

They started the FSX version years ago makes sense that it will be released first.

 

If you jump out of your avsim bubble you'll realize alot of people still use FSX.

Bad business. Spend time working on a product and then releasing it to a sim which is on the way out? The product itself will help drive P3Dv4 sales more but the converse is not true.