FSlabs320

[Nighthwk 566]

1 hour ago, kevinh said:

What they should have done is get the A320 working in v4, then do the SP1 upgrade for FSX/P3D, and finally add the extra 64 bit functionality (HD sounds, etc). It's very frustrating to wait for all the extra stuff to be tested. PMDG chose to do the P3Dv4 port first with the promise that additional P3Dv4 features would come along later.

I certainly hope SP1 for the A320 is coming before the A319 release otherwise we'll be waiting for a very long time. I don't recall seeing the release order you quote referred to on the FSL forum.

That's their entire plan, v4 then FSX. As for the extra features, it'll be nice to have anyway. They said v4, then A319, then SP1 if I recall correctly. They said back in June or July that SP1 would follow later this year so I'd assume we are nearing SP1.

[GEKtheReaper 364]

6 hours ago, Milton Waddams said:

The A320 is being sold for FSX and P3D v3 at the moment with no option to buy it for v4 so they are not obligated in any way to port it except by their promise that it will be done. FSL never said that they would upgrade it to 64 bit until v4 was announced for release so they were not in PMDG's position where they HAD to deliver in a timely manner. FSX will get it's service pack free of charge adding all the missing features to it. Though that will be the last major update for 32 bit platforms. You won't have to pay for additional functionality, only new luxuries like a new sound set or new lighting. Nothing like that will make it back to the 32 bit platforms anyway, as memory is a huge concern for them.

Dear Milton,

you missread (or missinterpreted) my post. I newer said anything about FSL charging for V4.

I said that the NGX was released in 2015 with a promised update for 64bit. Nobody knew when LM will go for 64bits. Therefore they covered P3D v2, P3D v3 and now finaly P3D v4. The NGX is also a very complex bird and they managed to port that OLD code quite quick (never thought it could be done that fast). The NGX costs 90$ and has full functionality.

FSL released A32X for P3D this year if i'm not mistaken at a higher cost (I admit it again, I find the A32X more advanced that any other ACFT) and I find FSL state of mind "you should be glad we don't charge you for v4" not quite fair. Also FSL approach towards charging for upgrades e.g. SP2 or else is IMHO not the right way.

Furthermore they released a year ago the A32X for FSX with only a partially functioning FMC and tell us that some of the missing functions will come in SP1. We are now 1 year further and SP1 is still not out. So at this point some customers already paid for something that they don't have. Hypothetical speaking, the rumors say you will be charged for further functions.

I find all of the above not fair towards the customers. I did buy the A32X because it's advertising, the holy grail of simulation. I did not search from a list of 300.000 ACFT functions, what was included in the release, in the SP1, in the SPxx. I thought I will get the best there is...

[Nighthwk 566]

5 hours ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Dear Milton,

you missread (or missinterpreted) my post. I newer said anything about FSL charging for V4.

I said that the NGX was released in 2015 with a promised update for 64bit. Nobody knew when LM will go for 64bits. Therefore they covered P3D v2, P3D v3 and now finaly P3D v4. The NGX is also a very complex bird and they managed to port that OLD code quite quick (never thought it could be done that fast). The NGX costs 90$ and has full functionality.

FSL released A32X for P3D this year if i'm not mistaken at a higher cost (I admit it again, I find the A32X more advanced that any other ACFT) and I find FSL state of mind "you should be glad we don't charge you for v4" not quite fair. Also FSL approach towards charging for upgrades e.g. SP2 or else is IMHO not the right way.

Furthermore they released a year ago the A32X for FSX with only a partially functioning FMC and tell us that some of the missing functions will come in SP1. We are now 1 year further and SP1 is still not out. So at this point some customers already paid for something that they don't have. Hypothetical speaking, the rumors say you will be charged for further functions.

I find all of the above not fair towards the customers. I did buy the A32X because it's advertising, the holy grail of simulation. I did not search from a list of 300.000 ACFT functions, what was included in the release, in the SP1, in the SPxx. I thought I will get the best there is...

You got the best there is, an accurately simulated A320. That's a big milestone for them. Sure there is missing FMGS functionality but that is coming in SP1 (I know you acknowledged this). I'm under the understanding that there are only a couple of pages missing, and relatively minor ones. You have a funny functioning A320 (albeit without a few FMGS features) while v4 users don't even have an airplane for the FMGS to fit into. They said what they said because so many people were complaining it wouldn't be free when Lefteris asked why people felt entitled to free upgrades and I'm pretty sure they were originally going to charge for them but the community swayed their decision. They aren't charging for the new sound set, new textures, new features, new VC and external model, and so on, that's a lot to not charge for and I think he was saying how we should be glad we are getting all of this for free when it obviously hasn't been an easy conversion.

[GEKtheReaper 364]

@Milton Waddams your answer is very pertinent and it's your way of seeing things.

Let me drop in some things:

1. New VC: there were a lot of reports about the poor VC graphics, unreadable buttons, verry poor sidewindow textures and so on. Is the new VC a fix or improovement?

2. Sounds: lot of reports about popping sounds, sounds changing (rotating) with the view (e.g. wipers)... . Is the new reworked sound package a fix or improovement?

3. Textures:...

As you see, one can change it's view about things in regard to he's expectation (and I expect a lot from FSL given what they managed to achive).

I think that your way of "and what if some features are not yet implemented" is not correct towards the customers. You can of corse take FSL side but if you talk down some facts (ah...those few pages nobody needs) you will be again unfair towards the comunity.

I whish you the very best and may the A32X be in your (and our) hangars soon after v4.1 release.

I do thou hope that FSL will change theyre customer policy (it's a bit childish in my eyes).

Regards,

Gerald

[kevinh 409]

12 hours ago, Milton Waddams said:

That's their entire plan, v4 then FSX. As for the extra features, it'll be nice to have anyway. They said v4, then A319, then SP1 if I recall correctly. They said back in June or July that SP1 would follow later this year so I'd assume we are nearing SP1.

You seem to have misread what I wrote, because what I suggested isn't what they are doing. They aren't just doing v4 compatibility they are adding a lot of functionality too. Some of which relates to SP1. Doing the v4 compatibility work first wouldn't have taken all this time. Also there's no indication on their forum that the A319 is coming before SP1. It wouldn't make any sense to release the A319 expansion at the current level of development then develop both to SP1 standard.

[Nighthwk 566]

1 hour ago, kevinh said:

You seem to have misread what I wrote, because what I suggested isn't what they are doing. They aren't just doing v4 compatibility they are adding a lot of functionality too. Some of which relates to SP1. Doing the v4 compatibility work first wouldn't have taken all this time. Also there's no indication on their forum that the A319 is coming before SP1. It wouldn't make any sense to release the A319 expansion at the current level of development then develop both to SP1 standard.

I believe Andrew from FSL said that th schedule would be A320, A319. SP1. It may or may not be in that exact order, though. 

[Nighthwk 566]

1 hour ago, GEKtheReaper said:

@Milton Waddams your answer is very pertinent and it's your way of seeing things.

Let me drop in some things:

1. New VC: there were a lot of reports about the poor VC graphics, unreadable buttons, verry poor sidewindow textures and so on. Is the new VC a fix or improovement?

2. Sounds: lot of reports about popping sounds, sounds changing (rotating) with the view (e.g. wipers)... . Is the new reworked sound package a fix or improovement?

3. Textures:...

As you see, one can change it's view about things in regard to he's expectation (and I expect a lot from FSL given what they managed to achive).

I think that your way of "and what if some features are not yet implemented" is not correct towards the customers. You can of corse take FSL side but if you talk down some facts (ah...those few pages nobody needs) you will be again unfair towards the comunity.

I whish you the very best and may the A32X be in your (and our) hangars soon after v4.1 release.

I do thou hope that FSL will change theyre customer policy (it's a bit childish in my eyes).

Regards,

Gerald

The VC includes a new model and added functionality. The sound is their new custom sound engine with a completely reworked soundest. Textures will be upgraded massively. I agree, some of their policies for customer service are a bit unorthodox but they are mostly on the right track, at least in my opinion.

[kevinh 409]

4 minutes ago, Milton Waddams said:

I believe Andrew from FSL said that th schedule would be A320, A319. SP1. It may or may not be in that exact order, though. 

Since posting my last reply to you I looked in their forum again and found posts that support your view that the A319 will be out before SP1. A beta tester posted:

"The A319 will follow shortly after the V4 release, and after the bug fixes from the V4 version have been rolled back into the FSX/P3Dv3 version of the A320X".

That implies the order is v4 update, roll back fixes in v4 to FSX/P3Dv3, release the A319.  I still don't see that as making good development sense though. However I guess they want some income from selling the expansion.

Andrew Wilson posted this: 

"The system updates (SEC FPLN, FIX INFO) and bug fixes that have been done will go into an update for P3D V3/FSX right after the P3D V4 version has been released.

SP1 will then follow sometime after for all platforms, and SP1 will be the last update for FSX/P3D V3."

Again that clearly says there will be an FSX/P3Dv3 update right after v4 update release.

I had assumed SP1 would include things like SEC FPLAN and FIX INFO but that's coming sooner. Clearly what they mean by SP1 is a much more comprehensive update. At least the 32 bit users will be left with a fully functional A320.

[Nighthwk 566]

1 hour ago, GEKtheReaper said:

@Milton Waddams your answer is very pertinent and it's your way of seeing things.

Let me drop in some things:

1. New VC: there were a lot of reports about the poor VC graphics, unreadable buttons, verry poor sidewindow textures and so on. Is the new VC a fix or improovement?

2. Sounds: lot of reports about popping sounds, sounds changing (rotating) with the view (e.g. wipers)... . Is the new reworked sound package a fix or improovement?

3. Textures:...

As you see, one can change it's view about things in regard to he's expectation (and I expect a lot from FSL given what they managed to achive).

I think that your way of "and what if some features are not yet implemented" is not correct towards the customers. You can of corse take FSL side but if you talk down some facts (ah...those few pages nobody needs) you will be again unfair towards the comunity.

I whish you the very best and may the A32X be in your (and our) hangars soon after v4.1 release.

I do thou hope that FSL will change theyre customer policy (it's a bit childish in my eyes).

Regards,

Gerald

The VC includes a new model and added functionality. The sound is their new custom sound engine with a completely reworked soundest. Textures will be upgraded massively. I agree, some of their policies for customer service are a bit unorthodox but they are mostly on the right track, at least in my opinion.

[Proflig8tor 4]

Unorthodox?

As a guy new to FSLabs, have to say they seem hostile to new customers. 

As a pilot getting his 320 Type next month I had hoped to use FSLabs product as a little play along study aid. Will now just move along with a copy of AeroSim rather than pay to downgrade to a old P3Dv3 and take the chance on FS Labs keeping a promise of a free upgrade to V4 ($320 total to go backwards for a few weeks until I am in a level D box anyway)

-----

In other news

Some of our Lockheed sims run P3D. The FAA is mandating full on stall training (which FS & P3D never modeled correctly). My understanding is there is a major improvement to the flight models in the works to meet the requirement.

[Nighthwk 566]

2 minutes ago, Proflig8tor said:

Unorthodox, or just unprofessional?

As a guy new to FSLabs, have to saw their hostile behavior towards customers is really unbecoming. Leftist, or whatever his name is, locks threads the second someone asks about the availability of the product or if gets the merest sniff of what he might consider criticism. They will not let new people sign up for their forums. Most businesses want to sell product. This must just be their private club and hobby.

As a pilot getting his 320 Type next month I had hoped to use FSLabs product as a little play along study aid. Probably just move along rather than pay to downgrade to a old P3Dv3 and take the chance on FS Labs keeping a promise of a free upgrade to V4. The company provided a copy of AeroSim (which has a terrible UI, but works for what we use it for).

If FSLabs was a business they would care about lost revenue. It is a hobby.

-----

In other news

Some of our Lockheed sims run P3D. The FAA is mandating full on stall training (which FS & P3D never modeled correctly). My understanding is there is a major improvement to the flight models in the works to meet the requirement.

They lock the threads due to rampant speculation and people doing exactly this, accusing them of not giving updates about the release. Generally, if left open, they devolve into either bashing FSL or complaining how PMDG did it faster. They'll keep their promise, nothing they've said indicates that they won't. you're not paying to downgrade to P3D, the license you bought was for v3, not v4. All of our Lockheed sims run P3D, that's interesting about the physics model though. Where'd you hear that?

[Guest]

Are we dealing with another fake " coming soon " news ala qw or are we dealing with a 2017 release here instead ? 

Hard to say it for certain

[Proflig8tor 4]

Milton - behave or we will put your cubicle back in the basement and fix the glitch :-)

I bought Lockheed's P3Dv4 and would have to pay to buy the older v3 package if I wanted to also purchase FSLabs product. Some of us have time requirements. After October 13th I would have no use for the product, but could sure use it now.

As for the P3D physics model, heard it from the instructors during the last recurrent check on the B737. Here is an article describing the industry's position.

https://aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org/features/stall-recovery/

We were told it will be working by early 18 if not sooner and already had to memorize the new procedure. (and trying to forget it as ground school approaches for the bus ... really looking forward to the AirBus, it is a much nicer airplane than the 737. Does not seem to perform as well, but the improved ergonomics mean we aren't in as much of a hurry to get the flight over with anyway - just fly around the weather and look at it through those big windows ... size wise the AirBus reminds me of my days on the 757/767) 

[Nyxx 6,993]

29 minutes ago, Mark II said:

Are we dealing with another fake " coming soon " news ala qw or are we dealing with a 2017 release here instead ? 

Hard to say it for certain

No, no fake " coming soon" They simple say it will be ready when it's ready, nothing more nothing less. Thats PMDG classic along with a Simple "soon".

2017? no idea all we can do is wait and see as asking is not recommended.

Wait till you see V4.1 drop then cross your fingers.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

No, no fake " coming soon" They simple say it will be ready when it's ready, nothing more nothing less. Thats PMDG classic along with a Simple "soon".

2017? no idea all we can do is wait and see as asking is not recommended.

Wait till you see V4.1 drop then cross your fingers.

I don't like be totally passive, to the point where I'm even not allowed to ask.    

Are we under a WWII regime perhaps ? C'mon, be serious.

Am I a human or am I a drone which can only wait hoping for the best and also not allowed to ask ? I think you were ironic in your statement, ok.

Told that, not only I will keep on asking, if I will have answers which will not satisfy me f.i. missing dozens of deadlines in 10 years, I will criticize them hardly, that's how it works in my human life.

I hope you are not all Mr. Smith out there, in case, I am Neo or at least I am embarked, proudly, in the Nabucodonosor to go against Mr. Smiths