P3d v4 crashing all the time for no reason

[FlyingMasterChef 4]

Thanks much for the info guys!!!   I do have the tech knowledge to get in there and figure it out.. You definitely helped me to narrow it down.  I have built systems for years for not only myself but for others as well.  Started back in DOS days and really upped my production and tech knowledge about the time of win3.1.  🙂   My systems are all self built.  I was hoping not to get too deep into this one as for what may be or going bad as I will be building a new system next year with all the newest fun stuff...  I started building this one 5 years ago and have updated stuff along the way since then...but the MB is getting to the max of what I can add to it, thus the new system coming soon.  Also, as I recently lost my job I am way low on funds...and thus the new system must wait and installing or replacing anything on this one currently is on hold.  I had just dropped a small fortune on P3Dv4 and all the add-ons I got for it right off the bat and the restaurant I was executive chef at closed down out of the blue.  That was over a month ago and still trying to find a place that won't tell me I am way to over qualified for them to hire...  Having to now find a new place to live and my car engine blew up.  Yeah, been one of those months!!!!!!  Funny, bills don't care how over-qualified you are....but employers do..  UGH! 

Just a quick update...I did notice that no matter what was going on my GPU card fans would never go up above 8%...  (on auto)  So I cranked them up to 75% manually and P3Dv4 ran for several hours with no issues at all.  My temp gauge on front of my computer (I have 5 reading areas inside the computer) were jumping from 80-85 degrees (F) to 160-180(F) while running P3D.  After cranking up the GPU fans those temps never went above 110 (F).. I know those are not the core temps but a drastic cooling drop like that over all MUST have some GOOD impact..  I will watch the actual core temps the next time I test it later today.

 

Greg

[Twenty6 692]

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 12:58 PM, SpectroPro said:

What this ever found / fixed?   I see the info for FSX but he said Prepar3D 4.3 which is what I have.  I have the issue that when I load ANY plane I may get 5 minutes in it, I may get until I move the view and then it does one of 2 things..  CTD or way more frequent, shuts off the computer completely (reboot.)  

Glad I found this thread. Misery loves company.I haven't been bothered with CTD except in a few instances where I know what I did to cause the crash.

My current nightmare is the computer rebooting for no apparent reason This has been happening since late August, early September, this year, both before and after an SSD failure, before and after a Win10-64 build 1803 new install, before and after a P3Dv4.3 new install. No addon scenery, some addon scenery and all my addon scenery. Same protocol for installing aircraft and utilities. Replaced a CH Eclipse yoke with a Logitech Xtreme joystick. Different keyboard and mouse. Stripped down and rebuilt the computer. New dust for old dust.

I ruled out hardware problems (after replacing the SSD) cuz I also have Trainz: A New Era on this computer and it will run without incident for hours and hours and hours. AI trains might become confused and lose their schedule but no reboots. None at all. I've gone thru the AVSIM CTD guide but I'm not experiencing a CTD. Even though, I've gone thru it, reinstalling C++ and NET framework libraries, covering all bases. I've used TaskMgr to disable all unnecessary startups and MSI update utility to bring any and all Z270 motherboard drivers up-to-date. 416.81 Nvidia graphic drivers only for a GTX1070. Locked i7-6700 so no overclocking is involved. Huge Rosewill case with 6 or 7 fans. Temps rarely exceed 55 Celsius.

This CPU began life in a Dell 8900. Motherboad died in July, 2017 and was replaced by the MSI Z270. If the CPU is dying I'd also have these reboots while Trainz is running. Trainz will stress my computer just as much as P3D will.

I'm wondering if Windows 7 is the only way out of this?

[Jim Young 2,356]

I would suspect one of the RAM modules.  Any bent pins under the CPU on the MB could cause anomalies too.  You do have an older version of Window 10 (now at 1809).  As you know, the Internet says it is probably a hardware or driver issue.  I have never heard of P3D causing a reboot.  The reboot is actually a BSOD without any warnings or messages.  Download the BSOD viewer (link in AVSIM CTD Guide) and see if there are any BSOD's.

I had one memory module not working properly (AIDA64 Extreme program indicated all modules were okay).  I would be running P3Dv4.3 and sometimes I would get a crash after loading everything, sometimes after two hours of flight, and sometimes no CTD at all.  But mostly I would get random crashes/BSOD's.  Checked the pins under the CPU.  All okay.  Removed two memory modules (had four) and all crashes stopped.  Narrowed it down to just one of the modules causing the problem.  Extremely frustrating as the system and benchmark programs show all modules working properly.  I recently decided to run a stability test with AIDA64 with all memory modules installed and AIDA64 crashed after about 30 minutes of testing.  Removed the bad module and all is well again.

Best regards,

Jim

[Twenty6 692]

On 11/12/2018 at 10:09 AM, Jim Young said:

I would suspect one of the RAM modules.  Any bent pins under the CPU on the MB could cause anomalies too.  You do have an older version of Window 10 (now at 1809).  As you know, the Internet says it is probably a hardware or driver issue.  I have never heard of P3D causing a reboot.  The reboot is actually a BSOD without any warnings or messages.  Download the BSOD viewer (link in AVSIM CTD Guide) and see if there are any BSOD's.

If it was the RAM it would happen across Trainz too. These reboots only happen in P3D. Those are the only two programs that run on that computer for any length of time.

AppCrashView is not recording anything about the reboot so I don't think it's a BSOD. Windows Event Viewer tells me my computer unexpectedly rebooted.

But to leave no tern unstoned, I've removed a pair of RAM modules. And then will switch out and replace with the other pair.

After that it's the TrackIR 64bit USB drivers which my wife pointed out is the only thing I haven't had words with.

[Jim Young 2,356]

14 minutes ago, Twenty6 said:

AppCrashView is not recording anything about the reboot so I don't think it's a BSOD. Windows Event Viewer tells me my computer unexpectedly rebooted.

AppCrashView will not record BSOD's.  As shown in the AVSIM CTD Guide, the following link will record them - https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html

As I stated, I had no other app installed that crashed.  Only P3DV4 and the many add-ons I have installed.

[jpf 14]

if any of you are using active sky/rex combo; try running P3Dv4 only without either running in the background and see how you get along. I have had recent similar issues (a CTD with nothing in logs) and running now without rex I have no CTD...  I don't have the complete solution but it's worth a try.

seems much more responsive without rex too although ASP & ASCA is not the same but I can live with that. I'm pursuing the possibility of corrupt weather data but I just haven't had enough time to check out everything...

[FlyingMasterChef 4]

UPDATE:   So, I just finished moving..and when I got my computer set up it decided NOT to work..  So, I decided to tear it apart.  My plan is/was to build a new system in a month or two...but why not start now..  I noticed when I took the CPU fan off that the heat paste had completely dried up and much of it had fallen away from the connection as soon as I unlocked the fan.  This makes me think that there is no way the cooling was going the way it should have been.  I never once thought about this needing to be replaced but have since found that many people actually replace their paste every few months.  Mine has been there for probably 3-4 years since I put on the new fan.  

So I ordered some new arctic paste.  I also decided to get a new cooling fan system.  I went with the Cryorig H7 which had great reviews, a great price point, and features that I was looking for.  It's a MONSTER and weighs a ton but I can't wait to see the results.  

I also ordered a new mother board that will allow me to upgrade other things as well including upping my memory to 64 gigs.  The fan and mother board come today so I'll HOPE to have it all working tonight.  Fingers crossed.  I will be getting a new CPU late this month or early next.  Going with the i7-8600K.   It has the right price (yeah, that really is important) with a HUGE upgrade in performance over the 2600K that I have now.  

I was going to simply try the paste to see if that was the culprit all the time.. it seems to be a very good likelyhood.  So, just in case anyone else is reading this with the same sort of problem, this may be something to check out.  You MUST have a good seal between your cooling unit and your CPU.  The paste MUST be in good condition and of high quality. It also MUST be put on correctly.  I watched some videos of how some people put it on...  and then they wondered why it failed.  LOL!!!

I'll post my results when I can.

 

Greg

[Jim Young 2,356]

First of all, congrats for building your own system.  You learn a lot and and there is plenty of info on the Internet on how to do it properly.  I like the Cryorig H7.  It is hard for me to believe the paste on your CPU would ever go bad.  There is an i5 8600K but not an i7 8600K.  There is an i7 8700K.  The i7 8700K is about 5% faster than the i5 8600K.  There is a huge price difference for that 5% added performance - the i7 8700K is around $370 and the i5 8600K is about $255.  I personally think you are making a good move to the i5 8600K.  There will be a significant increase in performance vs the i7 2600K.  The i7 2600K was quite a good CPU though and changed the world of flight simulation significantly.  You should see about a 49% increase in performance depending on the other hardware you install.  You should be able to get the CPU overclocked up to 5GHz.  The new cooler will help you get to that mark. 

You do not need 64GB of memory so you can save a lot my just installing no more than 32GB of memory.  I think 16GB's is more than sufficient for today's simulators.

I suspect you are going to keep the GTX 960 w/4GB's of memory.  If you can I would upgrade to at GTX 1080 with 11 or more GB's.  You do not need to do that right away though.  You have some fast Samsung SSD's too which will help with the performance.  What is going to be the voltage of your Power Supply.  I would recommend a minimum of 600W's.

Best regards,

Jim

[FlyingMasterChef 4]

10 hours ago, Jim Young said:

First of all, congrats for building your own system.  You learn a lot and and there is plenty of info on the Internet on how to do it properly.  I like the Cryorig H7.  It is hard for me to believe the paste on your CPU would ever go bad.  There is an i5 8600K but not an i7 8600K.  There is an i7 8700K.  The i7 8700K is about 5% faster than the i5 8600K.  There is a huge price difference for that 5% added performance - the i7 8700K is around $370 and the i5 8600K is about $255.  I personally think you are making a good move to the i5 8600K.  There will be a significant increase in performance vs the i7 2600K.  The i7 2600K was quite a good CPU though and changed the world of flight simulation significantly.  You should see about a 49% increase in performance depending on the other hardware you install.  You should be able to get the CPU overclocked up to 5GHz.  The new cooler will help you get to that mark. 

You do not need 64GB of memory so you can save a lot my just installing no more than 32GB of memory.  I think 16GB's is more than sufficient for today's simulators.

I suspect you are going to keep the GTX 960 w/4GB's of memory.  If you can I would upgrade to at GTX 1080 with 11 or more GB's.  You do not need to do that right away though.  You have some fast Samsung SSD's too which will help with the performance.  What is going to be the voltage of your Power Supply.  I would recommend a minimum of 600W's.

Best regards,

Jim

Jim, 

Glad you replied...because, I actually did mean the i7 8700...  but the price was keeping me from getting it now.  If I got the other I could get it now..and yes, if the increase is only about 5% for that price, it's not worth it.  IMO..  I, sadly, am one that sees the  numbers and newer/bigger must always be better....thus, i7 should always be had over i5.  LOL  But, I do see many FS people using i5 and I see their numbers better than mine have been.  

I will be keeping the 960 for now simply because of cost to upgrade currently.  AND, I just bought it a few months ago.  So I have not come close to getting my money's worth out of it.  And since everyone seems to be moving up to the 1080 and better I doubt I could sell it for even 1/2 what I paid...but who knows..after this rebuild I will have MANY parts to get rid of.  LOL  (I never toss anything from old builds...and just found, when I moved, that I have almost 30 memory sticks of various types and ram sizes.  LOL!!!!)

I love building computer systems.  Back in the DOS days and up through windows ME I built systems for myself and friends.  I used to keep up on all the hardware and specs for all the best rigs.  And like you, I NEVER knew the paste could/would go bad.  But after reading so many people talk about changing theirs on their insane high end game rigs ever few months it got me thinking.  Then after seeing mine hard as a rock and all simply disintegrate when I took off the cooling fan I had to really wonder if that wasn't the issue.  I  mean for it to do its job it would have to be a nice full coverage barrier..and there is no way mine could have been since it was in small little chunks.  I wish I had saved it to show a picture.  Needless to say, I didn't have to wipe anything off the CPU or the cooler as there was literally nothing left on them.  

I will probably do the 32gigs.  Since I have 16 of them already.  I mispoke when I typed that.  I simply meant that the new board would handle 64.  It does support and come with 32gigs of optane memory as well, which I have read good and bad things about.  But seems that with my SSD's that will actually be a nice help.  I did get another 1gig samsung ssd since they have it for almost $90 OFF...  It now costs what I paid for my first 256  gig SSD.  LOL

Oh, the power supply I have is the Corsair HX750.  I love it!!!!  

 

Greg

[FlyingMasterChef 4]

Update to my update.  LOL  Well, going to be a while before I am back up and running.  Turns out the new board won't use my memory (DDR3) as it's DDR4.  Also, won't use my CPU.  UGH!!!!!!!!  So, I have everything I have currently (except the case and drives and graphics card) up for sale.  The memory I can get cheap enough but I have decided to invest in the i7-8700 because while it is more (I can get it for $309) it does support the hyperthreading which will come in handy when I am broadcasting.  My computer isn't just for gaming.  I use it for a media server where I have currently 15 subscribers that can watch any of my 4000 movies or 180 TV series' (over 15,000 episodes.) and I also am working on a vcast which all the reviews said you really can't do on the i5-8600 especially if doing it while playing..  And since I will be doing it while on P3D I need it to work and work well.

So... stuck on my word not allowed laptop for now...at least I can still use the forums.. 🙂  Hope to be up and running by January.

Greg

[Shomron 251]

On 11/14/2018 at 10:37 PM, jpf said:

if any of you are using active sky/rex combo; try running P3Dv4 only without either running in the background and see how you get along. I have had recent similar issues (a CTD with nothing in logs) and running now without rex I have no CTD...  I don't have the complete solution but it's worth a try.

seems much more responsive without rex too although ASP & ASCA is not the same but I can live with that. I'm pursuing the possibility of corrupt weather data but I just haven't had enough time to check out everything...

I am having CTDs with no trace/logs as well since installing REX SF3D.

Has anyone else been experiencing these (in conjunction with Active Sky)? Can anyone suggest a solution?

I am pretty positive it is linked directly to REX SF3D installation since I've never had these before (aside from the famous TFDI 717 change view crash).

 

Shom

[jpf 14]

I've not really had problems since I removed rex. I can't honestly say that WAS the issue. however I am using AS3D/ASCA at the moment and I find if I use 4096dpi cloud settings then P3D can still crash but I get an error from AS3D that it ran out of VRAM (8GB on a GTX1080). so that could be it... cloud texture DPI too high for available VRAM. lowered to 2048dpi VRAM usage averages 45% BUT with a couple of ASCA settings upped to 4096dpi usage was 94% and P3D could CTD at some point.

[Shomron 251]

7 hours ago, jpf said:

I've not really had problems since I removed rex. I can't honestly say that WAS the issue. however I am using AS3D/ASCA at the moment and I find if I use 4096dpi cloud settings then P3D can still crash but I get an error from AS3D that it ran out of VRAM (8GB on a GTX1080). so that could be it... cloud texture DPI too high for available VRAM. lowered to 2048dpi VRAM usage averages 45% BUT with a couple of ASCA settings upped to 4096dpi usage was 94% and P3D could CTD at some point.

Thanks for the info you get a sudden crash of P3D with no error/trace? Weird that in these cases there is no error given...

Take a look at this thread - https://www.realenvironmentxtreme.com/forums/index.php?/topic/49201-p3d-v43-ctd/

[jpf 14]

very interesting thanks. I am happy with ASP3D & ASCA now. I didn't like ASCA compared to REX sky textures but they've grown on me and I prefer them now. but I might give it a go at the weekend 😉

 

actually I just read through those instructions and I'm pretty sure that just about every add-on will need reinstalling after deleting those folders. I'm not that desperate.

Edited December 12, 2018 by jpf