CPU cooler upgrade

[Noel 4,499]

On 10/16/2017 at 7:21 AM, scottb613 said:

Here is the Noctua I prefer and what I'm including in a build I have planned for this year:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9PV3Y62116

Regards,
Scott

Hi Scott,

I have had a NH D-14 now for 5 years and since I have my HAF X case standing upright that puts a huge amount of weight on the pcb where the socket lives.   My mainboard failed after 4y which may or may not have had to do with this issue, but since replacing the mainboard w/ a refurbished one of the same model I have used zip ties to make a sling that fully supports the NH D-14.   The zip ties are great because you can link several together which I did to thread thru holes in the case chassis metal and then you can cinch up the sling just right to counter gravity.  Worth a thought if you also will keep the PC case upright. 

[martin-w 3,235]

On 20/10/2017 at 10:51 PM, Noel said:

Hi Scott,

I have had a NH D-14 now for 5 years and since I have my HAF X case standing upright that puts a huge amount of weight on the pcb where the socket lives.   My mainboard failed after 4y which may or may not have had to do with this issue, but since replacing the mainboard w/ a refurbished one of the same model I have used zip ties to make a sling that fully supports the NH D-14.   The zip ties are great because you can link several together which I did to thread thru holes in the case chassis metal and then you can cinch up the sling just right to counter gravity.  Worth a thought if you also will keep the PC case upright. 

 

Your motherboard failure was highly unlikely to be anything to do with the D14. Noctua's SecuFirm2 system is very good. Static compressive load on the CPU IHS is higher than Intel's 50 lbf spec, purposefully, as it improves cooling, but more importantly, dynamic comprehensive loading during a reasonable shock event is actually below Intel's 160 lbf spec thanks to the spring mounting system.

Given that the motherboard is firmly screwed to the case, no "unacceptable" bending of the board is possible.  Also worth mentioning that a degree of bend on a motherboard is permissible, Asus spec is something like 1/2 inch across the board IIRC. Crazy I know. 

Noctua engineers have tested the system and it has proven itself over many years. My old D14 was in four different systems over quite a few years. Zero problems. No need for you to worry. However, it makes sense to remove the cooler if shipping distances, as a crazy courier banging it about in the back of a lorry has been known to cause issues

I had the cable tie idea too but when I installed the cooler it was immediately apparent it wasn't required. I also designed a support bracket at the time. Didn't use it.

Incidentally, what usually happens in the event of an excessive comprehensive dynamic load event is not so much MB bending, it's the cooler base being pushed into the bottom of the IHS, crushing the socket. It happened a while back with Scythe coolers and Skylake. The Scythe mounting system had no spring retention system, so no shock absorption. Further more, the mounting pressure was way above Intel spec. Scythe did quickly address the issue and modified the mounting system. 

 

 

 

[martin-w 3,235]

26 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

[Noel 4,499]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

Your motherboard failure was highly unlikely to be anything to do with the D14.

I had the cable tie idea too but when I installed the cooler it was immediately apparent it wasn't required. I also designed a support bracket at the time. Didn't use it.

 

 

I tend to agree but 'highly unlikely' is not the same as, 'not possible.'   For the lousy 25 cents worth of zip ties I'll do it every day of the week and twice on Sundays!  It just LOOKS stressed--but I understand what you're saying it's very robust for normal stresses.   However over many years, micro-fractures to the PCB, years of moving my case on and off it's base, all that leveraged gravity, etc.  Here's Noctua's disclaimer:

"As it is not possible to reliably calculate or control the forces that act upon a system during transport (e.g. in shipping), we generally recommend, for safety reasons, taking the cooler off. Noctua cannot be held responsible for any damage that may arise due to excessive stress during transport if you keep the heatsink installed."

Adding the zip ties took it from 'robust' to near bullet proof, and it could easily take shipping stresses IMHO.  

Martin, when I finally get around to a new build which I am holding off as long as possible as I can't stand the heat of the new chips I think because of how intrusive the size of Noctua coolers are I'm contemplating water cooling solutions.  Do you have a recommended AIO?  I'm guessing they're near bullet proof by now as far as leaks go, yes or no?

[martin-w 3,235]

16 hours ago, Noel said:

I tend to agree but 'highly unlikely' is not the same as, 'not possible.'  

 

Firstly, I have no problem with anyone using zip ties or there own custom built bracket if it gives them piece of mind. There's a lot to be said for peace of mind. As I say, I almost did.

In regard to cooling, and many things, "not possible" is out of the question. That applies to water coolers and even light weight air coolers that none of us would hesitate to install without worry. The Scythe incident is a prime example, these were light weight air coolers that nobody would consider supporting with zip ties. However... the result was still damage to the CPU socket, the reasons for that I mentioned previously. So "impossible" would be asking too much I feel. 

 

Quote

However over many years, micro-fractures to the PCB, years of moving my case on and off it's base, all that leveraged gravity, etc

 

Empirical evidence is the key I would say. We can hypothesise about such things but we have to ask whether, in practice, such a scenario is manifest. And if we look at the evidence, it's not. We can scan Google as much as we like and there's not a single, definitive, example of the D14/15/15S "in normal use" damaging a motherboard as a result of the weight of the cooler.

 

Quote

"As it is not possible to reliably calculate or control the forces that act upon a system during transport (e.g. in shipping), we generally recommend, for safety reasons, taking the cooler off. Noctua cannot be held responsible for any damage that may arise due to excessive stress during transport if you keep the heatsink installed."

 

Yep, absolutely. I mentioned this in my previous post. I mentioned the crazy courier scenario. My comments were based on a few examples where idiotic individuals had shipped their systems across the US with the cooler still attached. Damage ensued. To be honest, if I shipped a system a distance, even with a light weight air cooler, I'd remove it. I wouldn't risk a D14, even with zip ties,  either to be honest Noel. 

But Yes, as I say, I have no problem with you or anyone using zip ties, why not if you feel you want to, it harms no one. My solution was an aluminium bracket that i intended to attach to the top of my case with self tapping screws. I didn't it in the end, but I feel it would be a more robust solution that zip ties, all be it overkill. 

 

[martin-w 3,235]

16 hours ago, Noel said:

 

Martin, when I finally get around to a new build which I am holding off as long as possible as I can't stand the heat of the new chips I think because of how intrusive the size of Noctua coolers are I'm contemplating water cooling solutions.  Do you have a recommended AIO?  I'm guessing they're near bullet proof by now as far as leaks go, yes or no?

 

Well I recently built a Mini ITX system for my daughter Noel.

7600K, GTX 1060, 16GB GSkill Ripjaw V 3200 MHz.

I tried a Noctua cooler first (cant recall the model) but no dice, wouldn't fit. In addition I was concerned with maximising air flow through such a small, warm case. To that end I ordered custom length PSU cables from CableMod to reduce cable clutter and went for a Corsair H100i V2 for the CPU.

I have to say that after assembly the H100i V2  performed admirably and handled a great overclock. The pump isn't even on high speed. Not particularly noisy, which is more than can be said for the GTX 1060. Although I did replace the Corsair fans with Noctua fans. Didn't even try the Corsair fans.

Since that initial bash I've delidded the CPU using the DieMate 2 and used Thermal Grizzly liquid metal TIM between IHS and Die. Temp dropped another 15 degrees. Didn't expect more as  Intel's attempt at TIM between die and IHS was reasonable. Not dried out, not excessive. 

Since then it's run at 5 GHz without issue.

My choice would be a Corsair Noel, something like the Corsair H115i, if you have room for the rad.  Another option to consider would be the relatively new  360 rad AIO's from for example Fractal Designs. No idea re quality and haven't looked at the reviews.

No, I would say regarding being "bullet proof". Yes they are better than they used to be but you still hear of issues. If you check out the Corsair forums you'll see it still happens. 

[scottb613 1,188]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:51 PM, Noel said:

Hi Scott,

I have had a NH D-14 now for 5 years and since I have my HAF X case standing upright that puts a huge amount of weight on the pcb where the socket lives.   My mainboard failed after 4y which may or may not have had to do with this issue, but since replacing the mainboard w/ a refurbished one of the same model I have used zip ties to make a sling that fully supports the NH D-14.   The zip ties are great because you can link several together which I did to thread thru holes in the case chassis metal and then you can cinch up the sling just right to counter gravity.  Worth a thought if you also will keep the PC case upright. 

Hi Noel,

Sorry - missed this - thanks for the tip - I'm planning to do this around the holidays - I'll keep it in mind...

Note: Are you the Noel that used to hang around the FlightSim hardware forum years ago doling out sage advice on hardware ?

Regards,
Scott

[Noel 4,499]

4 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Note: Are you the Noel that used to hang around the FlightSim hardware forum years ago doling out sage advice on hardware ?

Regards,
Scott

No I don't think so Scott.   I'm a little short on sage advice, but I'll sling an opinion out there regularly just because!

[scottb613 1,188]

Hah - then we're in the same boat...

Regards,
Scott

24 minutes ago, Noel said:

No I don't think so Scott.   I'm a little short on sage advice, but I'll sling an opinion out there regularly just because!