Is Coffee lake worth the upgrade for flight sim?

[Avantime 81]

On 10/15/2017 at 1:53 PM, ahsmatt7 said:

 

I'm seriously considering the 8700k right now because why not go for the extra 2 cores. I currently am using a 1080ti at 4k resolution with a 2700k at 4.6ghz. I'm only getting mid 20s at airports like the newest ksfo from flightbeam and the pmdg 747. P3d v3.4. Medium to high graphics settings.....nkt everything maxed out.

I honestly figured I woukd get at minimum 35 fps in any given situation regardless of weather with my new build and using p3d v4.x.

I guess I'm kind of deflated at the moment. Oh well.

I was in the same boat as you 6 months ago, with a 2700K @ 5 GHz. I'm currently on the 7700K @ single core 5GHz boost + GTX 1080ti. You will not get 35 fps minimum in any situations with P3Dv4 because of 2 things, dynamic lighting at night and AI traffic.

Coffee lake is currently suffering big supply shortages (and price gouging) so that's another minus. However I still think you should consider upgrading your system, maybe next year when prices for Coffee lake & Z370 stabilize.

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

13 minutes ago, Avantime said:

I was in the same boat as you 6 months ago, with a 2700K @ 5 GHz. I'm currently on the 7700K @ single core 5GHz boost + GTX 1080ti. You will not get 35 fps minimum in any situations with P3Dv4 because of 2 things, dynamic lighting at night and AI traffic.

Coffee lake is currently suffering big supply shortages (and price gouging) so that's another minus. However I still think you should consider upgrading your system, maybe next year when prices for Coffee lake & Z370 stabilize.

I expect some teething issues with the dynamic lighting. I have been following that since v4 came out. It's pretty bad that even the 1080 ti  can't handle the dynamic lighting.

I don't really use ai traffic anymore.

Outside of these 2 situations, I woukd at least expect 30 to 35 fps most times using a 1080 ti on 4k.

If not, then I give up on flight simming. It's just getting to ridiculous that after 10 darn years, we can't get good and consistent performance.

[Noel 4,487]

I don't think can go wrong w/ 8700K and 1080 Ti if you're coming off of what I am which is 3930K and GTX Titan.  I know the sim will need retuned, and will still constantly be in a state of both cpu and gpu boundedness, but what I would expect is the ability to lean on in particular GPU related sliders much more than I can now, plus those areas that are mostly CPU bound will improve enough.  I seem to be right on the edge of perfect as I run UNLIMITED frames w/ VSYNC at 30mHz vertical refresh and as long as 30 can be maintained I have perfect smoothness.  Once it struggles to maintain 30 very poor smoothness ensues.  I should, I believe, see roughly 30-35% increase in total performance w/ this sort of an upgrade, and that is should address very well the current shortfall I'm seeing so that I should be able to maintain 30fps which always equates to perfect liquid smooth video.  My main miff is the lousy thermal performance of these newer chips.   My 3930K's IHS was soldered on--as these 'enthusiast' chips should all be, just like AMD still does.    I won't use anything less than 6 cores/12 threads as I see strong evidence it's very meaningful.

[S_D 7]

FWIW I've just finished my 8700K upgrade (currently running stock, and coming from a 4790K overclocked to 4.6). Carried over my EVGA 1080 SC Gaming (also running stock at present) and now running 32GB RAM at 3600MHZ C15. From an entirely subjective viewpoint, P3Dv4.1 seems to be running faster and, more importantly, smoother. Still haven't finished installing all my add-ins, nor have I yet oveclocked to where I want to get, so things aren't settled yet. 

[Ted Striker 338]

8 minutes ago, S_D said:

 Still haven't finished installing all my add-ins, nor have I yet oveclocked to where I want to get, so things aren't settled yet. 

Really, looking forward to your test results of this upgrade S_D. Since you are using the same video card they will be a good indicator of what P3D performance changes to expect from just the 8700k and new ram.

Ted

[Avantime 81]

On 10/21/2017 at 5:15 PM, ahsmatt7 said:

I expect some teething issues with the dynamic lighting. I have been following that since v4 came out. It's pretty bad that even the 1080 ti  can't handle the dynamic lighting.

Outside of these 2 situations, I woukd at least expect 30 to 35 fps most times using a 1080 ti on 4k.

If not, then I give up on flight simming. It's just getting to ridiculous that after 10 darn years, we can't get good and consistent performance.

Unlike FSX, P3D is being continuously improved performance-wise, and I would say the performance difference between FSX and P3Dv4 is now night and day. 30-35fps most times are definitely doable if you:

1) Fly light GA aircraft into small airfields.

2) Fly PMDG-style airliners into less detailed areas, and avoid places like NYC, London, Paris etc.

3) Fly PMDG-style airliners anywhere, but lower the sliders a bit and avoid flying into big airports with dynamic lighting at night.

I would also suggest looking into X-Plane or even Aerofly. They fly very smoothly if you have decent hardware.

[Noel 4,487]

On 10/20/2017 at 8:57 PM, Avantime said:

You will not get 35 fps minimum in any situations with P3Dv4 because of 2 things, dynamic lighting at night and AI traffic.

Are you saying you can't leave dynamic lighting off, and reduce AI traffic as low as needed to maintain adequate performance?   I can't hardly perceive the effects of dynamic lighting so it's off for me.  Seems to me w/ 8700K and 1080Ti you can can more than wonderful performance nowadays in P3D--you just to keep sliders within reason.  Just because the developer puts a slider in the can max out any system doesn't mean you're supposed to expect max quality in all scenarios.

[vortex681 806]

20 hours ago, S_D said:

From an entirely subjective viewpoint, P3Dv4.1 seems to be running faster and, more importantly, smoother.

I assume that you did a clean install of Windows as part of your upgrade? If so, this would almost certainly make things run better anyway, even if you'd kept the old system.

[martin-w 3,234]

On 21/10/2017 at 6:39 AM, Noel said:

  My main miff is the lousy thermal performance of these newer chips.   My 3930K's IHS was soldered on--as these 'enthusiast' chips should all be, just like AMD still does.   

 

Having said that, the new AMD chips have a lower frequency but when OC'd are still warm. Despite being soldered. Although they do have lots of cores of course. They are also pretty huge CPU's, with tons of IHS surface area, but still warm. 

The 8700K isn't doing too badly in terms of thermals really. To be fair, Coffee Lake is merely Kaby Lake with a couple of extra cores, the same architecture. Despite having two extra cores, it's about 10 degrees cooler than Kaby Lake I heard. May be wrong. Tom Logan from OC3D hit it with tons of stressful benchmarks at 5 GHz and hit a max temp of 80 degrees. Not delidded. That's with a H110. Considering the two extra cores and the intense workload, I think that's pretty good. Silicone lottery applies of course.

But yes, I reckon 10 to 20 degrees less than that with delidding. 

 

 

[westman 257]

On 10/12/2017 at 9:36 AM, Dirk98 said:

We are waiting for your comparisons (7700k, 7920x, 8700k) in p3d,

I understand 7920x is slightly faster in multi-core speed than 7900x, but 7900x is slightly faster in single core, is that right? 

Thanks,

Wait for the MONO BLOCK from EK run std vrm cooling , not ready for P3D yet,

I did a CB 15 test with my 7700k and the 7920X , its a beast the single tread ipc is 2-3% better then 7700k. Run both cpus with HT OFF how need HT on a 7920x

CB15 7700k vs 7920X overclocked

[Noel 4,487]

34 minutes ago, westman said:

Wait for the MONO BLOCK from EK run std vrm cooling , not ready for P3D yet,

I did a CB 15 test with my 7700k and the 7920X , its a beast the single tread ipc is 2-3% better then 7700k. Run both cpus with HT OFF how need HT on a 7920x

CB15 7700k vs 7920X overclocked

What's with the massive voltage differences?  0.98v at >5Ghz?  That's impressive!

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

 

Having said that, the new AMD chips have a lower frequency but when OC'd are still warm. Despite being soldered. Although they do have lots of cores of course. They are also pretty huge CPU's, with tons of IHS surface area, but still warm. 

The 8700K isn't doing too badly in terms of thermals really. To be fair, Coffee Lake is merely Kaby Lake with a couple of extra cores, the same architecture. Despite having two extra cores, it's about 10 degrees cooler than Kaby Lake I heard. May be wrong. Tom Logan from OC3D hit it with tons of stressful benchmarks at 5 GHz and hit a max temp of 80 degrees. Not delidded. That's with a H110. Considering the two extra cores and the intense workload, I think that's pretty good. Silicone lottery applies of course.

But yes, I reckon 10 to 20 degrees less than that with delidding. 

 

 

Fair, schmair, I think it's really pathetic to send these out w/o solder.  At the very least it kills longevity to be running at 80C+.  The really weird part is--when people de-lid these things they aren't even soldering the IHS back on, instead that are using a some kind of superior liquid metal heat conductor to get that 10-20C temp drop?   This implies Intel is literally using a relative insulator between the IHS and the die!!!   Awful!

[westman 257]

12 minutes ago, Noel said:

What's with the massive voltage differences?  0.98v at >5Ghz?  That's impressive!

 

I run adaptive vcore it only take what it need , during full load the voltage raise to 1,24v on 10 cores 5.05ghz and 2 cores the best ones 5.15ghz at 1.28v ,

cpu is delidded and is one of the handpicked ES samples to show the power of I9 high density chips just before realease.

it run pretty cool with that voltage beetwen 60-65C and 70C on the 2 faster cores

It even do 5ghz on 12cores at 1.24v on AIO H115 temps 70-80C

[Dirk98 354]

1 hour ago, westman said:

 

I did a CB 15 test with my 7700k and the 7920X , its a beast the single tread ipc is 2-3% better then 7700k.

Could you comment on the result of the test in more details? 

2-3% doesn't sound like a big difference --> unless it translates into something else, that I don't know/or understand. 2-3% is just too little purely number-wise. But I don't know anything about this CB test.

Thanks,

[westman 257]

13 minutes ago, Dirk98 said:

Could you comment on the result of the test in more details? 

2-3% doesn't sound like a big difference --> unless it translates into something else, that I don't know/or understand. 2-3% is just too little purely number-wise. But I don't know anything about this CB test.

Thanks,

CB15 is good test for the CPU , used it long time

when it come to P3D v4 a really dont know before doing some tests, but have a clue .

i can think of about a 5-10% gain in p3d  suprized if get more  compared to the 7700k probaly less, it should load texture faster and run smoother thats my expentations.

in fps 2-4fps more if you get 40fps today 

[Dirk98 354]

3 minutes ago, westman said:

CB15 is good test for the CPU , used it long time

when it come to P3D v4 a really dont know before doing some tests, but have a clue .

i can think of about a 5-10% gain in p3d  suprized if get more  compared to the 7700k probaly less, it should load texture faster and run smoother thats my expentations.

in fps 2-4fps more if you get 40fps today 

We'll wait for tsts in P3D v4 meanwhile.

Thanks!